QUOTE (ChrisLeonard86 @ Nov 1 2004, 06:25 PM)

I don't see a problem with clapping for artists. It is an expression we use to show that we are pleased with someones performance

Again to the artist. When I stand up there and sing I have enough problems trying to keep my ego down after the performance. I battle with that so much. If you start clapping for me that goes all to my head. "hey they like me a lot" I think. It brings all sorts of glory to the performer and that is not the reason for the performance, the reason is to give God glory. It is a pride thing.

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God does NOT care what you do to worship him, as long as you do something

There is many verses against unholy worship. You can not worship God with the moves of the devil. You can not worship God with unholy acts. So it is important how you worship God. "John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

ok, good point, but i didnt mean anything unholy, lol.

QUOTE (amazinglove92 @ Nov 1 2004, 10:49 PM)

QUOTE (ChrisLeonard86 @ Nov 1 2004, 06:25 PM) I don't see a problem with clapping for artists. It is an expression we use to show that we are pleased with someones performance Again to the artist. When I stand up there and sing I have enough problems trying to keep my ego down after the performance. I battle with that so much. If you start clapping for me that goes all to my head. "hey they like me a lot" I think. It brings all sorts of glory to the performer and that is not the reason for the performance, the reason is to give God glory. It is a pride thing.

That is you. This is me: I play the piano at church and sometimes I feel down a discouraged after I play a song that I work REALLY hard on and no ones cares that it is well beyond my level or at least sounds like it. They just kinda stare at me impassively. That bothers me. I get embarressed when they clap, but I enjoy that more than the resounding silence...*cricket chirp*

QUOTE (audrey_ga_cowgirl @ Nov 2 2004, 01:48 AM)

That is you. This is me: I play the piano at church and sometimes I feel down a discouraged after I play a song that I work REALLY hard on and no ones cares that it is well beyond my level or at least sounds like it. They just kinda stare at me impassively. That bothers me. I get embarressed when they clap, but I enjoy that more than the resounding silence...*cricket chirp*

Yeah I understand the get discouraged thing. I sing sometimes and I do just horrible and it is dumb but:

We must remember that all praise should go to God. And just so we may feel better about our dumb performance does not allow us to take the glory from our Lord.
I don't like the resounding silence either. But I would rather have silence then get my stupid pride up again.
What my church does after we sing we give the glory to God. We say "Amen! Praise God!" That kind of stuff.

They say that at my church too.

It's like a congradulations. You don't say it to God for making a beautiful day, do you? But, if someone gets married or graduates, you say, "Felicitations and congradulations!!!" I see where you are coming from...

QUOTE (audrey_ga_cowgirl @ Nov 2 2004, 02:51 PM)

You don't say it to God for making a beautiful day, do you?

When God opens up the clouds to let out the sun for my picnic you can hear some loud amens coming out of my mouth.

Amen means according to my boy Webster "let this be so".

So I might be using it wrong some times. I should have said "loud praise God's coming out of my mouth."

By the way, why shouldn't we say praise God when the sun is out? Or even when the rain is there and it is cold? God is so good why shouldn't there be perpetual praise coming out of our mouth?
"Rejoice in the Lord always and again I say rejoice!"

Exactly!!! All this was to lead up to my point:
When those clapping are clapping, they aren't patting you on the back. (some might be, but don't think of it that way) They are rejoicing w/you in the Lord that you did! You couldn't have done it w/o Him and they are rejoicing w/you. That is the point of clapping.
Now, "Bravo" is saying "What a great job you did" but clapping, I believe, sir, is a different matter entirely.

I do indeed believe that we should rejoice in the Lord for beautiful days as well as when water pours from the heavens in liquid drops. I was just making a round-about point..!

QUOTE (audrey_ga_cowgirl @ Nov 2 2004, 03:33 PM)

Exactly!!! All this was to lead up to my point: When those clapping are clapping, they aren't patting you on the back. (some might be, but don't think of it that way) They are rejoicing w/you in the Lord that you did! You couldn't have done it w/o Him and they are rejoicing w/you. That is the point of clapping. Now, "Bravo" is saying "What a great job you did" but clapping, I believe, sir, is a different matter entirely.

What we have here madam is a diference in interpetation.
I believe that those clapping are indeed patting you on the back.
Clapping is bringing no glory to God it is bringing all the praise to the singer as previously stated. They are clapping because what you sang or played was nice to listen to and they want you to know that they think that you are something, and good.

Alas, sir, we do seem to have a difference of interpretation. I will leave it at that for we see each other side and yet hold to our own opinion. I thank you for being quite diplomatic in your answers, also.

This post has been edited by audrey_ga_cowgirl: Nov 3 2004, 06:44 AM

Madam left alone it shall be.
Let us rejoice in the fact that we can have a debate and still be friends. Churches have separated for sillier reasons than clapping in church. I see your point of view and I admonish you for so valiantly sticking to it. This shows dilligence, which is something missing in todays world.
We had a nice wholesome debate. Let us remember how this was achieved in our future debates.

Indeed and thank you again.
I am rather pleased that we may mantain our unusual friendship even w/our debates going around us.

I know we have a topic about hardcore music...I wanted to figure out what you guys think about Christians listening to non-christian music. Should or shouldn't it happen?

I think there are plenty of artists out there that don't fall under the label "Christian" but still put forth positive music. However, there are those who put forth only music about negative issues. So I think that if there's an artist that's not exactly a "Christian" artist, it's still okay as long as you don't get too carried away and as long as it's purely positive, clean music. Like Mandy Moore. I think she has some very positive songs, but she's not a strictly Christian artist. I think it's okay to have some variety.

On another note, secular means "without Christ" or "without religion." So, what kind of "secular" music are you referring to? I mean, I ride the bus to school and we always have a secular radio station on the bus. I listen to it. I don't pay attention to it unless it's a really good song, but I'm still exposed to it. I think that's okay because I know where I stand and I know that some of the topics aren't very clean. I dunno...just some views on it I guess.

This post has been edited by ButterflyforChrist: Jan 28 2005, 03:28 PM

Your not any less of a christian for listening to "secular" music

Mandy Moore is pretty cool...there's this one song I really like of hers...I think it's on some movie...lol the specific movie and song are escaping me right now...

A Walk to Remember perhaps? That's a great movie...for a chick flick. I'm trying to think of other movies she's been in...hmmm.....

I'd like to challenge you though Kyle to check out what the Bible says. It says things like Among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality...coarse joking...foolish talk...it also says whatever is true,holy,and the list goes on...think about such things. It says also Do not conform to the pattern of this world...offer your bodies as living sacrifices...your body is God's temple...Think of what happens when you listen to secular music (specifically I am talking about the music that has a specific "non-christian" message)

You are right on that: music is not amoral. It definitely has an affect on lives.
I have a friend who is addicted to her secular music. She thinks she is good enough to go pro and because of this reason she will not give up her music that she knows is wrong. She listens to Eminem and rap and various artist like that.
She does not realize what this music does to her. I have watched her when she sings or is listening to it in the car and she becomes more disrespectful and ungodly. I don't think this is the case for everyone but music definitely has an affect on lives.

So...I'm guessing that there is a difference between listening to it alone for your own pleasure and being stuck on a stupid public school's bus. Hehe, if I had it my way, all busses would have a CD player and we'd listen to Kutless all day!

lol yeah I'm pretty sure that no one is going to condemn you for riding a bus that plays secular music

*whew* that's a relief!

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She listens to Eminem and rap and various artist like that. She does not realize what this music does to her. I have watched her when she sings or is listening to it in the car and she becomes more disrespectful and ungodly.

I know how that is. Grrr....can't stand Eminem. Dances are sometimes the worst, when people at my school dance to songs like that. I haven't been to a HS dance, but the MS ones were pretty ugly. I saw an 8th grader giving a 7th grader a lap dance.......*gag* It gets pretty wrong.

I think I agree mostly with what butterflyforchrist said early, I do have to say that I used to listen to it more than any other kind of music I listened to b/c the only Christian music I thought there was like Stephen curis Chapmon and Michael W. which really isn't up my ally. so I just listend to secular music b/c I liked more of the rock, until I got more exposed to diffrent kinds of Christian music that I now really like. Even tho I still listen to some secural music, I'm have now really started think about what is in the songs and what its doing to me. I'm now more alert about what I'm actually listening to. Even tho I still listen to it, I try and listen to the more positive songs.

Listening to "secular" music has not affected my walk with the Lord. Plus I can't stand most christian music.