QUOTE

THe Believe,theybelieve in the virgin birth,the crucification.It's just the first part that worries me.I know they believe,but to their salvation,I am not sure.Which is why I brought ythis question here.just looking for some insight.

True... but (I'll refrain from listing why in the Bible theistic evoloution doesn't work) I'll quote one of the paper's we wen't over in my Sunday school class:

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The belief known as Theistic Evoloution, is the worst of all possibilities. Not only is theistic evoloution a contradiction in terms- like the phrase "flaming snowflakes"- but it is also the cruelest, most inefficient system for creation imaginable. The struggle for life, and the elimination of the weakest (also called natural selection) is a horrible process. An all-powerful, all-knowing God does not have to painfully plod through millions of mistakes, misfits, and mutations, just to fellowship with humans.

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This is why I don't believe that theistic evoloutionists believe in the same God. See what I'm saying?

-Anonymous

Maybe I've been going about this the wrong way, though.

If there was no Adam and Eve, then there was no "first sin" therefore, Christ's sacrifice was not necessary. Why would they accept Christ's sacrifice, if they didn't need it? Why would God create a world that was already sinful?

-Anonymous

Ack I can't think like them!

it is kind of hard for me to rply,seeing as I do not have the mind of an atheist.

If their belief is a contradiction,what about the contradictions in the Bible?God sent his own son to earth just to die for some people that didn't deserve life?On the Cross Jesus called out"Father why have you forsaken me?"

Great Article On This Subject

I think that's a very interesting subject - one that I hadn't known much about until just recently. But as I've been learning more and more on it, and going back to the original language (Hebrew, as it's the Old Testament), there really is no indication that the active gap theory is a possibility. The link that I posted is to an article that addresses a few issues that need to be considered if one is to take a position other than what's explicitly or implicitly laid out in the Bible, and I found it to be very very helpful.

As to someone's salvation - that's for God to decide, and God alone. He reveals Himself to people differently, and He understands where their hearts are. I don't think it's always good for us to ponder about whether certain people will or will not be saved, because we can only see a tiny tiny piece of what God sees. Instead, I think we need to be focusing on our own relationship with Him, and speaking the truth in love to build eachother up. I really believe that our priority should be to stop looking at ourselves and others so scrutinizingly, but to focus all of our energy on searching for God, and learning all that we can about Him. He deserves our full attention simply because He's God, and when we devote ourselves to seeking Him with all our heart, He will be found by us. That's everyone's individual calling, and only God can know whether we're truly seeking after Him.

QUOTE (Auron @ Oct 28 2004, 01:12 PM)

If their belief is a contradiction,what about the contradictions in the Bible?God sent his own son to earth just to die for some people that didn't deserve life?

I don't see that as being a contradiction, simply the purest form of love. As that's what God is, it seems that He didn't have any other choice. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He was love, He is love, and He always will be love. The principle of love is self-sacrifice; putting someone ahead of yourself - not needing a reason for doing so.

But if God is truly all powerful,and He loved his son so much,why didn't he simply find a different wya?I mean he is all powerful,isn't he?Did he love Humans more then Jesus?

Jesus is God. Therefore, he loved us more than he loved Himself. A perfect example of agapé love.

-Anonymous

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But if God is truly all powerful,and He loved his son so much,why didn't he simply find a different wya?

The other way would have been strict adherence to the Mosaic law. Unless you're totally perfect...

-Anonymous

But surely n All powerful God would be able to find a way to save thethings he loved.Unless he isn't all powerfull.....

But it wasn't God's problem, it was ours.

-Anonymous

But if he hadn't let Satan tempt Eve,it would never have happened,So its God's fault.

God also gave man a free will. He didn't want robots.

-Anonymous

But if he is all knowing,and knew Satan would tempt them,wouldn't he love them enough to intervene,or atleast warn them?

He had already warned them. I don't think I know what you're trying to get at.

-Anonymous

He had not warned them that Satan would tempt them.He had not warned them that they woul sin.He had not told them about sin.He witheld information because he wanted them to fail.

QUOTE (Auron @ Oct 28 2004, 01:33 PM)

But if God is truly all powerful,and He loved his son so much,why didn't he simply find a different wya?I mean he is all powerful,isn't he?Did he love Humans more then Jesus?

Yes, of course God is all powerful. And it's important to keep in mind that Jesus is God as much as God the Father is. It wasn't God the Father arbitrarily sending His Son off to die - it was a decision made by the Godhead.

What would be the alternative? The wages of sin is death - that's the bottom line. It's not because God sat down one day while making up rules to govern the universe - it's based on the very nature of sin. Sin destroys - because it can't survive in the presence of God's holiness. So it's not as if God could "change the verdict" so to speak, and lessen the sentance. Hebrews 10 is a good chapter to read on this subject - in fact, the whole book of Hebrews is enlightening. But the beginning of the chapter starts off by saying: 1The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming--not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

We couldn't save ourselves. There was no other way except for God Himself to take our place. So yes, He's all powerful. But He's limited in that He can't go against Himself. He cannot change - because that would violate His character. And He can't simply change the outcome of sin because that was one of Satan's biggest accusations in the first place. God is just, but Satan accused Him of being tyranical. Sin must be allowed to play out its course or else Satan has a foothold. It's a hard concept to understand - I don't fully understand it. It's the "mystery of God," but He reveals it to us little by little - and when we get to heaven, we'll be able to ask Him all of this!

If Gos is All powerful,He could have chosen a different punishment for sin.Remeber He wrote the Law For the Wages of sin is death.He could have changed it,He could have wrote something entirely different for punishment.Jesus didn't have to die,he didn't even have to come to Earth.But seeing as you guys areclose but just can't seem to grasp it I will help.

Jesus Chose to come and die,God didn't choose for him,it was ghis decision.Like you said they are three in one,one didn't have superiority over the other.At any time Jesus could have stopped.He Chose to come and die,not to save us from our sins,while that was part of it.But he came to prove his love for us.

For Hundreds of years men had been blaspheming his name,He came to show them He was real and He loved them.God sent his son to prove his love for him and for humankind.The fact her rose Christ from the dead proved he was all powerful.The fact Jesus could debate the msartest of men showed he was all knowing.And the fact he decided to come to earth and die proved his love.

QUOTE (Auron @ Oct 28 2004, 01:49 PM)

He had not warned them that Satan would tempt them.He had not warned them that they woul sin.He had not told them about sin.He witheld information because he wanted them to fail.

As Anonymous said earlier, God does not and did not want robots. He wanted us to openly accept and love Him, just as he loves and accepts us. He understands we sin, as he created us to have & make choices. That is why he sent the spotless and pure lamb, Jesus Christ, to die for all the sins of the earth.

As you will recall, God is holy. That said, only Jesus (who was without sin) could be slain in our place. This is because we are separated from God by our sins, and the only gap between us and God that will save us is Jesus.

However, I'm still quite confused on your original post. The earth can't be more than 20,000 (I say 20,000 to be "safe") years old. If you believe the earth is older than that, read the Bible. It states very clearly that God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days (Book of Genesis). We see that, later on in the Bible, a day to God is 1,000 years to us. If you want the exact text I will retrieve it, I'm just being lazy right now.

With that said, God bless! I hope that you find and understand the answer you seek.

-Gundam

This post has been edited by Gundam†Under†God: Oct 28 2004, 12:58 PM

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He had not warned them that Satan would tempt them.He had not warned them that they woul sin.He had not told them about sin.He witheld information because he wanted them to fail.

Really? I don't think so. He gave them a choice. He said, don't eat of it, or you will surely die. He was right, wasn't He? Adam and Eve were warned. I'm not sure what you're getting at though, aside from trying to portray God as a big meany who wanted to "screw the world over"

-Anonymous

This post has been edited by Anonymous: Oct 28 2004, 05:37 PM

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STOP DELETING MY POST!

It's already there! You keep posting multiples!

-Anonymous

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If Gos is All powerful,He could have chosen a different punishment for sin.Remeber He wrote the Law For the Wages of sin is death.He could have changed it,He could have wrote something entirely different for punishment.

God didn't chose the punishment for sin in the sense that you imply. The wages of sin is death because the wages of sin is death. God didn't WRITE the law, He IS the law. The law is simply the manifestation of the character of God. And God can not go against Himself.

QUOTE (Anonymous @ Oct 28 2004, 02:05 PM)

QUOTE STOP DELETING MY POST! It's already there! You keep posting multiples! -Anonymous

Scroll a few posts up, it's there. Believe me.

-Anonymous

lol it comes up gone when i look.I leave the forum and when I came back you had the last post.

It's OK... I just thought the computer had made an error or something... We usually try to get rid of duplicate posts, because there's no point for them. Your original post is still up there, toward the middle.

-Anonymous

Ok since you are still replying,This was an Experiment.
not an actual argument.I do not really believe in what I was arguing,I was seeing how deep the Faith on this website was.I now understand the new Rule Syphon made.no offense but you are not as mature as you will need to debate atheists.But it is ok,you are mostly young and are yet to learn.

Thank you for humoring me and hope as you review it you will learn.God Bless.
-Auron-