umm....i am lost...but ooooook....are you people off the topic??? jw! i ma known to miss things...maybe i missed something

Well, whatever, I'm not too offended.

Where in Washington do you guys live? I used to live in Seattle.

(Edit note...now that I look at this again I can see that this really IS off-topic, so...does the gay community thrive in the WA area that you're in? )

This post has been edited by handle_taken: Oct 4 2004, 10:42 PM

Well, sorry if I offended anyone, I didn't mean for my post to be rude... I was in a bit of a hurry, I typed it up right before church. Sorry handle, like I said, I didn't mean to say anything that would have been interpreted as insulting, but I see how what I said could easily have been. I hope we can put all this behind us... I really do enjoy debating with you guys.

Well, not to change the subject or anything; but can we go back to the original topic?

I have several gay friends. I also have my leads at work are gay. I work with many other gay people as well. (BTW i live in orlando...alot of gay people).

I dont agree with their lifestyle but i respect them for it. I still hang out with them..(not spend the night unless the door to the room im in is locked and they are on the outside of it LOL) but yeah...i dont get bothered or even uncomfortable around them.

When you said that every gay person you met was messed up in some way i have to disagree....One person that is gay is my roommates brother. Ive known him since i was a little boy....(about 9 years now) and just found out half a year ago that hes gay. Hes a very smart guy....can hold any job he wants..can get any job he wants as a manager...is getting his masters in business....and very fun and funny to be around. Also my leads at work are very good at working...very nice people...very funny...i dont mind hanging out with them when im on break or going out to Dennys after a shift with....

I agree that it is wrong and God says this..but i respect their choice.

good advice anonymous, lengthy like with my forum, but better advice, i am totally against homosexuality, i just found out my favorite manager at work is.....eek, God Loves Everyone, But sorry to say i believe they won't make it thru the narrow gate....any sin is forgiven. i also believe it is a sickness, that needs healed quick, along with there soul. when there soul is cleansed all former thoughts will become NEW and they will not like what they once did....and they will feel it is not excepted.

Later
chris

This post has been edited by chris17: Oct 11 2004, 10:38 AM

Well put, Syphon, but I have to respectfully disagree with you on a few things.

QUOTE

I dont agree with their lifestyle but i respect them for it.

I agree, that you show all people the same amount of respect, but I wouldn't go so far as to say I respect their lifestyle. Homosexuality is a sin, so it would be the same as disagreeing with a murderer, but respecting his lifestyle.

QUOTE

When you said that every gay person you met was messed up in some way i have to disagree

I just mean every homosexual that I have met. One percent of the American population is homosexual, so there are a lot that I haven't met. Not every homosexual is messed up, except for the obvious.

Being homosexual is a choice; no one is born gay. Just like no one is born an alchoholic, (except for babies that became dependant on alchohol because their mother drank while pregnant) no one is born a smoker, and no one is born a drug addict (again, the exception being crack babies). Addictions and sins always start out with someone making a choice. Homosexuals choose to be attracted to the same sex. Alchoholics, although sometimes genetically inclined to be alchoholics, always make the choice to give themselves that first drink. Drug users choose to smoke that first joint, or put a needle in their arm. I haven't yet heard of a case where someone put a gun to someone else's head and forced them to light up a cigarrette. Which is why suing a tobacco company because of your lung cancer is ludicrous. Ah, but I'm starting to ramble again.

-Anonymous

mmm ... i have mixed feelings on this topic. I use to flat out think it was wrong. Then my friend came out to me and I wanted to better "understand" him. So I went "Straight" no pun intended lol to the Bible. I looked up the famous 6 verses that are used against homosexuality and I studied them. I looked up their original translation. Which was translated to mean that you shouldn't prostitute your body to someone of the same sex (as well as opposite of course!) .. the people they talk about like in Genesis 13:13 were not having relationships rather than perverting themselves!

So it's a very interesting topic to me. I'm not saying I think it's ok. I'm just willing to learn more

Could you please list the verses you spoke of?

-Anonymous

QUOTE (chris17 @ Oct 11 2004, 11:36 AM)

good advice anonymous, lengthy like with my forum, but better advice, i am totally against homosexuality, i just found out my favorite manager at work is.....eek, God Loves Everyone, But sorry to say i believe they won't make it thru the narrow gate....any sin is forgiven. i also believe it is a sickness, that needs healed quick, along with there soul. when there soul is cleansed all former thoughts will become NEW and they will not like what they once did....and they will feel it is not excepted. Later chris

I don't think we should have the attitude that all gays are going to hell. I believe that is so wrong. And if you say you can't have a gay Christian, maybe you should think again. After all, what is homosexuality? Sexual sin. THAT is something that everyone struggles with. For instance, what about the Christian teen guy that is hooked on pornography? There's thousands of them out there, and they're all struggling, but they're still Christian. I'm not saying all gays are Christian, that would be an idiot thing to say. But I believe there are some Christians out there who struggle with homosexuality, which is just another sexual sin. It's bad, yes. But we shouldn't condemn them. Jesus didn't condemn us.

QUOTE (Anonymous @ Oct 11 2004, 12:42 PM)

Well put, Syphon, but I have to respectfully disagree with you on a few things. QUOTE I dont agree with their lifestyle but i respect them for it. I agree, that you show all people the same amount of respect, but I wouldn't go so far as to say I respect their lifestyle. Homosexuality is a sin, so it would be the same as disagreeing with a murderer, but respecting his lifestyle.

Okay I typed that wrong..I respect them as a person and i ment like i dont condem them for their choice. I dont think the lifestyle is wrong...but when is ay i respect someoens choice to be in that lifestyle i mean i wont shun them or treat them diffrently.

I can see hwo that sounded bad.....but yeah i didnt mean it hte way it sounded...

QUOTE (executive_bozo @ Oct 11 2004, 06:41 PM)

QUOTE (chris17 @ Oct 11 2004, 11:36 AM) good advice anonymous, lengthy like with my forum, but better advice, i am totally against homosexuality, i just found out my favorite manager at work is.....eek, God Loves Everyone, But sorry to say i believe they won't make it thru the narrow gate....any sin is forgiven.  i also believe it is a sickness, that needs healed quick, along with there soul.  when there soul is cleansed all former thoughts will become NEW and they will not like what they once did....and they will feel it is not excepted. Later chris I don't think we should have the attitude that all gays are going to hell. I believe that is so wrong. And if you say you can't have a gay Christian, maybe you should think again. After all, what is homosexuality? Sexual sin. THAT is something that everyone struggles with. For instance, what about the Christian teen guy that is hooked on pornography? There's thousands of them out there, and they're all struggling, but they're still Christian. I'm not saying all gays are Christian, that would be an idiot thing to say. But I believe there are some Christians out there who struggle with homosexuality, which is just another sexual sin. It's bad, yes. But we shouldn't condemn them. Jesus didn't condemn us.

I agree with you on that. I dont believe just because your gay your automatically not a christian. Because your right...its a sexual sin. Just like there are many ohter sexual sins that christians commit. Now there are people thrat believe its okay to be gay and a christian and in that case .....its wrong....but if someone is strugling with being gay..but are saved....then they are just sining but i believe they are still a Christian.

QUOTE (Anonymous @ Oct 11 2004, 11:42 AM)

Being homosexual is a choice; no one is born gay.

My theology teacher once shared his belief on this...I'll share it with you guys though I'm still trying to decide whether I agree.

He believed that being gay is partially choice. While the final decision is yours to make, some people are more tempted to make that choice than others. Kind of like a personality flaw, some people are inclined to become homosexuals.

The reason I'm not sure if I agree with this is that I know a guy who was gay and then realized that it was sinful...yet unfortunately he couldn't "choose" to be straight again. He simply could not be attracted to women or stop being attracted to men, so he chose a life of celibacy. That's a hard choice to make...spending your entire life alone because you can't love the opposite sex.

QUOTE (handle_taken @ Oct 12 2004, 12:00 AM)

QUOTE (Anonymous @ Oct 11 2004, 11:42 AM) Being homosexual is a choice; no one is born gay. My theology teacher once shared his belief on this...I'll share it with you guys though I'm still trying to decide whether I agree. He believed that being gay is partially choice. While the final decision is yours to make, some people are more tempted to make that choice than others. Kind of like a personality flaw, some people are inclined to become homosexuals. The reason I'm not sure if I agree with this is that I know a guy who was gay and then realized that it was sinful...yet unfortunately he couldn't "choose" to be straight again. He simply could not be attracted to women or stop being attracted to men, so he chose a life of celibacy. That's a hard choice to make...spending your entire life alone because you can't love the opposite sex.

some people are meant to spend their lives alone. look at the apostles, none of them had wives that I know about. their lives were great models for us.

QUOTE

some people are meant to spend their lives alone. look at the apostles, none of them had wives that I know about. their lives were great models for us.

While it is true that some people are meant not to ever marry or have any kind of relations, some of the apostles did have wives- Peter had a mother in law, the only way to get one is to be married. And as far as not 'loving' the opposite sex, I'll say again, love is a choice, not an emotion, not a physical feeling. Due to the nature of the perversion that homosexuals engage in, it's possible that they no longer feel themselves attracted to the opposite sex physically, it's not impossible, however. And if they say that they can't love a person of the opposite sex, then I would question as to whether or not their attitudes about homosexuality had really changed.

-Anonymous

This post has been edited by Anonymous: Oct 12 2004, 10:42 AM

QUOTE (Anonymous @ Oct 12 2004, 11:39 AM)

QUOTE some people are meant to spend their lives alone. look at the apostles, none of them had wives that I know about. their lives were great models for us. While it is true that some people are meant not to ever marry or have any kind of relations, some of the apostles did have wives- Peter had a mother in law, the only way to get one is to be married. And as far as not 'loving' the opposite sex, I'll say again, love is a choice, not an emotion, not a physical feeling. Due to the nature of the perversion that homosexuals engage in, it's possible that they no longer feel themselves attracted to the opposite sex physically, it's not impossible, however. And if they say that they can't love a person of the opposite sex, then I would question as to whether or not their attitudes about homosexuality had really changed. -Anonymous

Yes love is a choice, you're right, but it's so much more than that! It is a feeling too! It's both.

QUOTE

Now there are people thrat believe its okay to be gay and a christian and in that case .....its wrong....but if someone is strugling with being gay..but are saved....then they are just sining but i believe they are still a Christian.

Exactly, It is one thing to struggle with it, it is another to not realize its even a problem.

Can anybody come up with any non-religious reasons for gay marriage to be illegal?

Opening the door to gay marriage paves the way for, say, two men and a woman, or, a man and a goat? or a man, a woman, and a dog? And if you think homosexuality is bad for public health... (the spread of AIDS ect)

-Anonymous

QUOTE (Anonymous @ Oct 19 2004, 12:07 AM)

Opening the door to gay marriage paves the way for, say, two men and a woman, or, a man and a goat? or a man, a woman, and a dog? And if you think homosexuality is bad for public health... (the spread of AIDS ect) -Anonymous

Yes and No. Aids...which somepeople still dont realize this..can be spread through both homosexuals and heterosexuals. Test has proven that it spreads the exact same way in both sexual prefrences.

Now about your thoughts on opening the door to other things..this is very true. People will start to say...well we won a battle..lets go for a new one. It goes to the old sain....Give someone an Inch...they will take a mile.

When you said what other reasons besides religion is there for gay marriage to be illegal...there really isnt any. This country was founded on religion and thats why most laws are the way they are. People that are against Gay marriage but are athest ....ask them this question. Why are you against Gay Marriage...their answer will be ....because its not right. Man was made for women and women made for man. But then if you ask them....where does that logic come from...they will be dumbfounded...because see God made it that way and athest say there is no God..but yet its amazing out they believe so much that can only be answered by God. Do they really thing a big bang happend and just happened to form a man and a women and not any other type of gender? Nope...Cause of God only!

I wasn't denying the fact that hederosexuals spread AIDS, I was just noting that it was a public health issue. Seventy-five percent of all male homosexuals have AIDS. Most people seem to believe the AIDS virus came from monkeys. Beastiality and bizarre 3 or 4 person 'marriages' would just make the disease problem worse by adding to the mix.

-Anonymous

But guys..who are we to judge these people? Alot of people just say "it's wrong" and dont know why other than that's what their told you know? And some say well the Bible says it's wrong.. well does it really? I'll find those 6 verses enless someone else here can list them.. then I suggest going back to the original translation of them.

I'm not saying I think its ok. I just started struggling with what I believe when my best guy friend came out to me... I figured it was fair enough to study it out.. since he considers himself to be a Gay Christian. He lives a life of ministry for God. Has a great Job. Doesn't sleep around like people think all Gay people do. He's been in a monogamous relationship for 3 years now ...

I also know of a couple that are now 68 years old and have been together since they were 16! now I dun care if your gay or straight that's pretty impressive lol

Anyway.. like I said i'm not sure where I stand on it yet.. but I don't think we should be so quick as to say "I believe they won't make it through the narrow gate" .. that's not our place. You know?

Sorry hope I didn't offend anyone! just tryin to see both sides!

Kat

Oh here's what Gay Christians say..

1)The Bible never mentions homosexuality or sexual orientation.
2) The six Bible passages used against gay people (Genesis 19:5, Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13, Romans 1:26-27, I Corinthians 6:9, I Timothy 1:9-10) are incorrectly translated and used out of context to hurt people not found in the original text.
3) Bible languages of Hebrew and Greek had no word for homosexual, sex or for romantic love.
4)The use of the Bible to condemn gay people violates theological and scientific principles of translation and interpretation. It is theologically and academically unsound, indefensible, irresponsible and ignorant.
5)Jesus never mentioned homosexuality. If it is the grave sin many claim it is, certainly he would have devoted at least a portion of his important teachings and lessons to this topic-but he does not.
6)The Bible repeatedly demonstrates God's love, care and acceptance of all outcast, rejected, misunderstood and alienated people.


Just wondering what all your opinions are on this?

In Christ,
Kat

This post has been edited by Emmaus: Oct 19 2004, 08:59 AM

QUOTE (Emmaus @ Oct 19 2004, 09:54 AM)

he considers himself to be a Gay Christian. I don't think we should be so quick as to say "I believe they won't make it through the narrow gate" .. that's not our place. You know?

First...nevermind.

Second, you're right. It's not our place to say that and I don't know who did, but they are dead wrong. WE don't know their hearts and what Christ has done for them. Who knows but they and God? A confused Christian is still a Christian no matter what.

QUOTE (audrey_ga_cowgirl @ Oct 19 2004, 10:00 AM)

QUOTE (Emmaus @ Oct 19 2004, 09:54 AM) he considers himself to be a Gay Christian. I don't think we should be so quick as to say "I believe they won't make it through the narrow gate" .. that's not our place. You know? First...nevermind. Second, you're right. It's not our place to say that and I don't know who did, but they are dead wrong. WE don't know their hearts and what Christ has done for them. Who knows but they and God? A confused Christian is still a Christian no matter what.

True:)

Did you say nevermind to the "gay christian" thing? I just said that that's what HE considers himself ..