I really dont care what you believe as long as you are a good person. Yeah I guess you guys are Christians I do believe it.

You have PROOF that God told him what to write?? After the Bible was written, nothing was supposed to be written afterwards. NOTHING. Adding, means, not necessarily to the Book of the Bible, but saying "God wrote these words!!!" sorry, but in my book, both are the same. Not true and against God.

*Sigh*

This is exactly what I didn't want to happen... people bombarding, merely quoting articles, and so on...

RyankennyZ, do you want to do a one-on-one debate with me on whether or not the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the true church in a new thread? I hold that the true church is in fact the church of Christ, but not what the LDS holds them to be.

Please let me know. I have a feeling if we do it that way, you can state your points, and I can represent the non-mormons, and we don't have to worry about replying really quick, or addressing the same arguments countless times, or having people plagerize to debate us. What do ya say?

If people post a view that is quite controversial in the Debates forum they are going to get bombarded.

I think the thing about God once being an ordinary man and such is blasphemy. If that sort of thing happened God would have told us in the Bible. He wouldn't have suddenly added a second book as an after thought.

Mormons seem to have such a different view of God and Jesus and Satan to Christians that I really don't see how they can be the same religion.

I still would like to hear Ryan's opinion on these questions please.



Where have ppl plagurized, I haven't seen too many ppl plagurize articles, if you are referring to me, one I labeled my source, and two, I quoted it as to not plagurize.

Revelation 22:18-19. "I warn everyone who hars the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add him to the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prohecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."

It is speaking of the particular book of Revelation, not the whole Bible here. Notice the key words " this book of prophecy."

How do you interpret Rev 3:21?

okay I don't really get what it is saying can you clarify

Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

In Rev 3:21, God reveals the principle of eternal progression. It states that God went through the same things we did, and if we follow His example, we may obtain the same glory which He has.

Proverbs 30:5-6 "Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar."

If you believe the word of God to be falwless, then you would know that the book of mormon is definitely not the word of God, for over 3,000 errors(changes may be a better word) were founded in it, and unlike Bible believers, they think the translator of the supposed "Nephi plates" was inspired by God to do so(translate in error)...and over 3,000 changes have been made(serious ones, not just grammatical) to what the man called a "inspired translator" and "prophet" wrote, and one of their faith proclomations is the book of mormon is the word of God, and they don't say as far as it's translated correctly, yet say that about the Bible, but the book of mormon is the one with original errors that were changed, not added by translators; they were fixed rather, if you can call it that...some of the first mormon people would actually teach that they first recieved the Nephi plates in error and it was translated accordingly...whichever way you look at it; false.

...and about revelations, they would be adding to that book of revelation or rather trying to change what it says, because it was the revelation for the children of God of what would come, as follows... Revelation 21:3-4 "And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, 'Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God."

...so unlike revelations, mormons don't say that Christians will be His people and He will be their God, but they say they will be Gods who rule planets themselves, which is adding to what the true revelation was, well actually just changing, or going by a completely different doctrine. And also, they say that hell will not be eternal for people, which is in direct contradiction of the book of revelations...the fact is, it's false.

edit: so if they want to say that joseph smith is the "head" of their church(D&C 28:2-6), then so be it, but we who are Christ's know that there is only one head of the church, and it is Jesus Christ our eternal Lord, whom be both the glory to now and forever amen.

This post has been edited by NChrist: Nov 12 2005, 04:03 PM

God did suffer the same things as we did, so that he can sympatathize.
Look at Hebrews 4:14-16

If you could answer my previous questions, I'd appreciate it.

RyankennyZ,

Why won't you accept my challenge? Unlike most of the people here, I know a good amount about the Mormon church, and have in fact actually read the book of Mormon (and own a couple copies).

I accept your challenge about the church. That's cool that you have read the Book of Mormon, but have you prayed about it?

They wouldn't be adding to Revelations or taking away from it, they{the Mormons} have the whole book, all 22 chapters. Adding and taking away in the literal, physical sense, when things were hand copied and hard to come by a actual manuscript.

As for the rest of your post directed against my quote, you're assuming way to much. I'm not a Mormon, nor have I stated that anywhere.

Oh no, don't take that the wrong way, I'm sorry it wasn't meant to be like a personal thing with you; I was just addressing mormonism, but I had saw you posted that up to someone else, and I was just trying to illustrate that they weren't far off in saying that, because like that proverbs verse says, and revelations they may not be trying to re-write it in the sense of take the book and mark out stuff and such in so much of a literal way, but I mean in the sense of the end time prophecy that's to be fulfilled they are, which is what the book of revelations was; they try to say they'll be God's who rule planets, instead of God's people dwelling with Him, and that He will be their God, rather they think they'll be their own God's...so in the sense of that, by them saying it's God's word of end time prophecy given to them, in spite of what the true prophecy was in revelation, they try to change it in that sense, as well as are contradictory to what revelations reveal of hell as being an eternal place for people, they say it's not, and people can just serve time and are free, and say God's word is that, so by just those things they try and change what the true end time prophecy from God was, but I wasn't trying to direct it all at you, just the topic at hand I was adressing.

This post has been edited by NChrist: Nov 12 2005, 09:35 PM

Yes sir.

I started a thread where you and I can debate one on one. I assure you I will do my absolute best to reply to every single argument you bring up, and I hope you will do the same. Thanks.

hey - in my opinion mormons are not Christian, they're mormons. the last versse of the bible states that you must never rewrite or change the bible, and that is what many cults have done. Maybe its not an issue because as long as you believe that Jesus Christ was the Son Of GOd and came to earth to save us, then u will be saved. if u dont however, u cannot possibly call urself a christian.
but its not up 2 me or any of us to decide this, its up 2 God.

ok i have a question for you. i believe that you are christians, but do you believe that you have to be saved to go to heaven?

First. Joseph Smith did not take part in occultic practices. I don't know enough to explain why they started polygomy. It's an eternal principle. However, we do abide by the laws of the land, so the practice was denounced in the 1800's.

I'm not an archeaologist, but I know there's TONS of history of the people of the Americas, known as the Incans, Mayans, Aztecs... I'd have to ask somebody more knowlegable than me about which tribes were those that we have records of. Many of the Indians didn't keep written records, but they kept them orally. There are still legends about when the "White God" visited their people. Also, when the Book of Mormon was brought to them, many recognized it as the history of their people.

I'm new to CTF. How do I find your tread to debate?

I have read much of the book of mormon and it seems there are many contradictions between the two.

In Moroni 8:8 of the book of Mormon teaches children are not capable of sin because they do not have a sinful nature, but the BIble teaches we are sinful from birth. (Psalms 51:5).

Also, I do not understand how the book of Mormon can be changed so many times, and still be considered correct. So much is taken out to conform to the political correctness of the current time. Over 4000, in all, actually. Many of these changes were spelling and grammatical errors, but others were doctrinal. The following site is an interesting one which compares the original Mormon Bible to the new one and shows many of the scriptures that have been signifcantly changed: http://www.irr.org/mit/changingscrips.html. It is pretty cut and dry, not trying to bring Mormons down, but just showing what has undisputably changed, and discussing why this may be.

Interesting that these revelations that "came from God" were allowed to be changed.

And doesn't the Mormon bible teach that black skin is a sign of the curse of God? (2 Nephi 5:21). God "punished" the people by turning their skin black, and they were no longer white and "delightsome" as the book says. That is clearly against the teachings of the Bible (Galatians 3:28), and quite silly since even Jesus had dark skin---he was in fact, a middle eastern Jew.

This post has been edited by dana: Nov 13 2005, 02:22 PM

I know for a fact children a capable of sin. I was a child once and I was a good child compared with most but I still sinned.

And yeah I know a lot of people that aren't white yet are very on fire Christians

Well... unfortunately one of the beloved moderators of the great and laudable CTF closed the thread... I'm trying to get it re-opened right now.

Again, grow up people. The ARE different religions out there, and all of them beleive they are right just the same as you do. Think about that some.

Wait until you kids get into the real work force and have to deal with people other than christians. See how far your "i'm the one who's right" attitude will get you. Not very far.

Grow up "people." There ARE different religions out there, and all of them believe they are right, just the same as you do. Think about that some... AND THEN realize that there is still a truth that exists amongst a hosts of lies and must be advocated with all fervency due to the simple fact that error is so common, and truth is supressed.

Wait until you get into the real presence of God and have to deal with His judgements on you, whether or not you are a Christian, and whether or not others are. See hor far your "everyone's entilted to their own opinion" attitude will get you. Not very far.

This post has been edited by bereanatheart87: Nov 13 2005, 05:17 PM