So here is my question...Why would someone in their right mind become a Christian?

Most Christians arent happier or healthier than Non-Christans.

There is no benefits of being a Christian.

If a non-Christian was to have ever read their Bible, they would know more about the Bible than a lot of Christians (unfortunately this is very much true)

There isnt even a sense of community in most churches (not all)

A lot of churches are just back stabbers, if you dont fit in.

So now after all this why would some one become a Christian?

Please dont put this in Seeker's of Christ or Christian debates...Thanks.

Because it's true?
And it's better to endure whatever persecution and so forth happens in this world for eternal life in the next.

Why isnt Buddhism true?




Yet you have no guarantee of this, its an assumption.

Why would someone want to become a Christian, for the assumption, no guarantee that their is eternal life?

The claims of Buddhism are so vague they might as well count for nothing. However, Christianity is inextricably bound to history; it is true only if the history proves it to be true. Since the historicity of Christ's existence, death and resurrection is comprehensive, Christianity is true.



It's not an assumption for the above reason.

First off:



Threads in the generic debates section have to be religiously neutral. This is not.

Don't you believe in God? If so, this thread would be suited in Christian debates. Otherwise, SOC. Why don't you want it in either of those sections? While being here, it breaks the rules. So if you don't in your next post specify one of those destinations, the thread will have to be closed unfortunately...

Specifically:

http://www.christianteenforums.com/Debates...nes-t34404.html



Since I'm not closing the thread with this post though, I believe I'm allowed to continue answering the rest of your topic.

Hence:



Sadly, this mentality is an unfortunate consequence of the society (and church) of today. In reality, what matters is whether Christianity is true or not. What you've said is equivalent of someone saying "Most people who believe there are only 9 planets in our galaxy are actually happier and healthier than most people who believe there are 10. Therefore why should anyone believe there are 10 planets?" Would you accept that reasoning? God doesn't promise to make you happier or healthier in this life, so your "point" is irrelevant.



If it is true, then there is a lot of "benefit" to being a Christian. And even if there wasn't, surely our beliefs should be founded in reality rather than appeal.



What does this prove? Theological ignorance is common among both believers and nonbelievers - and the lack of knowledge from both camps has been disastrous. Seriously, apart from myself, I only know of one other person IRL who has actually read the Bible!



Well then the problem is with churches, not with Christianity. Go and find a different church if you want to.



We know Christianity is true because of the evidence for it - take this article for instance (may require free registration);

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/News2?...cle&id=5507

Christianity has had a bloody past. We think Muslims are bad, they have nothing on us yet. You assume He resurrected, Jews assume He died, Muslims assume God saved from the cross... whos right?




Ok I just wanted atheist and non-christians to be able to have input. Please put it in the Christian debates.




No i dont agree with the reasoning. But God does make us healthier and happier...I met this preacher at a Christian Camp and he was just always smiling...it wasnt drugs. But other than that, the message Christians give out SHOULD help people, it should MAKE them healthy and MAKE them happy. I dont see how God hasnt given every Christian health? (Sure some people are born with problems) But its about healthy living is instructed in the Bible. Health and happiness can bring people in. Why would I go to a church where all the good faithful members smoke when I worry about my health?



Yes fair enough looking at objectively but when someone walks into church their first time they dont look at the logical side, they look at their benefits, Am i going to like it here? Am I going to find friends? if neither of those two questions are answered there are out, they dont care, they have better things do with their time.



People go, 'Why is Christianity dying in the West?' Are you seriously that stupid? (Im not saying you are Yoda) The church is dying because mose people would be able to jump to Daniel in their Bible or tell people anything about what they believe.



But the churches represent Jesus, Christianity. Why would someone go back to Christianity after being treated like a dog?



I am asking questions to get answers, I know Buddhism isnt the true religion

Some people may be thinking, I thought you were Christian, what is the go with this. In the West Christianity is dying, we need to each individually ask ourselves this question, why would some want to become a Christian...I will post my Biblical post 2moz...

No, I really don't think you understand. It isn't about me 'assuming' anything. Christianity is hostage to history; if history contradicts it, it ain't true. There is enough evidence, both Biblical and non-Biblical, to back up the truth of Christianity. I could type it out for you, but I'm kinda busy and I also don't think that's the purpose of this thread.
What I'm saying is though - Christianity is historically verifiable. That isn't true (as far as I'm aware) for Islam, Hinduism, etc.

As a Calvinist, I propose no one wants to become a Christian unless God works in their heart in such a way, and if He does that, then He will regenerate them.

The primary problem I have is that you're making Christianity into a club you sign up for and not a lifestyle of repentance and sanctification.

Someone would want to become a christian, because it's the only religion that gives you a Savior who saves you from sin and death. It's the only religion where God actually takes on a human form, steps down from his throne into darkness, becomes one of us, intereacts with us, to save us. It's the only religion that stresses God's love, mercy, grace and forgiveness for all who ask it. It offers not just rules and regulations but a personal intimate relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Christianity also is the only religion where you do not have to save yourself --in fact it stresses that you can't, (Isaiah 64:6, Ephesians 2:8)because we are saved by the belief in the already completed work of Jesus Christ.

But, biblically, the earths history is only six thousand years which we know for a fact to not be true. Sooooo it's hard to say any religion is true when there are holes and gaps and flaws within a wide division of thefaith itself.

How do we know that is not true? There is no such thing as a bullet proof dating system. Take the big bang theory for example mixed in with evolution. Theory is everything started from one atom. Problem from the start is not only where did the atom come from, but where did the fuel and ignite come from. Then are we to assume that all starts were created or some of them? Most evolutionist would argue they are being created yet we have never seen one form only die. There would have to be 35,000 stars created every day from then until now to get the amount of starts there are in the world.

People try to use the stars light as example of how old the date of the world is. Einstein theory of relativity would disprove this dating system. There was a study in the 70's by a group of scientist who said either one of two things is happening. Either we are moving towards a black hole or we came from a white hole. Meaning when everything was centrally located and blew outwardly everything would be moving at an infinite speed, thus traveling much further faster. Once again disproving we can rely on distance stars are from earth as a good source of dating information.

Carbon Dating

Radiation from the sun creates c14, a radioactive isotope of carbon. All living things, plants and animals absorb it. Everything absorbs the same amount of c14 until it reaches equilibrium with c12 and can’t absorb any more. As long as anything is alive it will have the same amount of c14 as it does c12. However, at the moment of death, c14 begins to break down, whereas the c12 remains constant since it is already stable.

Carbon dating works by comparing the amount of c14 still in a specimen to how much c12 there is. Scientists believe this works because the c14 breaks down a consistent rate. The half-life of c14 is 5,700 years.

Because the half-life is 5,700 years, carbon dating only works up to about 40,000 to 50,000 years. After that there is not enough c14 to measure. Anyone who tells you carbon dating proves the dinosaurs lived millions of years ago, or that the earth is billions of years old is just throwing out scientific phrases to try to sound smart.

So what happens when carbon dating is used on dinosaurs? Well, it almost always gives a date way to young to evolutionists to believe, so they throw it out. At Oak Ridge National Laboratory a dinosaur bone was tested and came back with a date of only a few thousand years old. Since the scientists had already decided how old they thought it was before they tested it, they threw this date out. Then they used several other dating methods, (which can vary by 150 million years) and then pick the date closest to the date they originally thought and say “scientific testing confirmed this date.”

There are several cases of c14 dating giving results that dinosaurs lived only a few thousand years ago. Here is a good example. Mr. Hugh Miller sent 2 pieces of an Allosaurus bone to the University of Arizona to be c14 dated. It was a blind sample, he didn’t tell them it was from an Allosaurus thought to have lived 140 million years ago. The result of sample A was 9,890 years, and sample B was 16,120 years. (Since there is more c14 being allowed into the atmosphere due to the magnetic field being broken down, even this date is probably older than the actual bone.)

Here are some examples of c14 dating bringing some embarrassment to evolutionary science:

A. Living penguins have been dated at 8,000 years.

B. A living mollusk was dated at dying 23,000 years ago.

C. A seal known to have been dead for 30 years brought back results of being dead for 4,600 years.

D. A freshly killed seal was dated at having been dead for 1,300 years.

There is obviously something flawed about carbon dating.

Here is something cool. Willard Libby and his colleagues discovered radio carbon dating in 1949. He also figured out that atmospheric carbon would reach equilibrium within 30,000 years of its beginning point. He tested the atmosphere, expecting to find it having been at equilibrium for quite some time. Instead he found that it had only absorbed about 1/3 its max amount. 1/3 of 30,000 is 10,000 years, very close to the age the Bible indicates.

Also read the book of Job, in the book it describes a creature very much like that of a dinosaurs.

One of the biggest points of argument between evolutionists and creationists, at least in the area of geology, is the age of the earth. The common method used to date the earth is sedimentary rock analysis. Sed rock forms at a certain rate, so if you measure the deepest layers of it you can calculate the age of the earth. Using this method evo’s have come up with the age of 6 billion years.

Unfortunately, evo’s are ignoring the fallacy of uniformitarianism; the false assumption that the process you see in front of you has always gone at the same rate. They fail to admit that catastrophe drastically speeds up the rate at which sed rock is formed. Simple deductive logic shows the blindness of their assumptions.

Modus Ponens

1.If catastrophe has happened (antecedent) then rock formation has sped up (consequent).

2. Catastrophe has happened.

3. Therefore, the rate of rock formation has been sped up.

Modern example. Mt. St. Helens created 25 feet of sedimentary rock in one day. Under uniformitarianism this amount would have taken thousands of years.

Of all catastrophes floods speed up the process the most. Read Gen 1:2,6-10, 7:17-20 (14 in app).

Flood evidence. Universal belief. Over 500 people groups have a flood history. Fossilized jellyfish, which decay in only 3 days, indicate a sudden catastrophic burial. There’s a fossil of 7ft Ichthyosaur giving birth and another is found eating a fish. There is a fossil of a whale standing on its nose in the middle of the Sahara Desert. There is also a polystrate fossil of a tree jutting through several thousand years worth of rock layers. Also, there are the many fossils they’ve found of sea life high on mountains, hundreds of miles inland.

Here are some random cool facts:

8. Abundance of water.
1. 70% of earth is covered by water, the “building block of life”.
2. It’s soluble quality makes life possible.
3. It floats when frozen, which is very rare (hydrogen bonding).

i. If it sank like all other frozen liquids, all natural water supplies would completely freeze every winter, which would kill almost all life.

ii. The top layer freezing acts as a protective layer, allowing water below to stay liquid and life to go on.

The size, position, and makeup of earth happen to be exactly what is needed to sustain life.

A. If it were 10% bigger or smaller, gravity would make life, as we know it impossible.

B. If we were 5% closer or farther from the sun we would freeze or burn.

C. 23 degree tilt on our axis makes seasons possible and ensures more even distribution of the sun’s rays.

4. Atmosphere; 78%nitrogen, 21% oxygen, 1% various others gases.
1. The perfection of this mix is seen more clearly when compared to other planets. The atmosphere on Venus and Mars is made up mostly of carbon dioxide. On Venus it is so thick you can’t see through it and surface temps reach 900 F. On Mars it is so thin that the air freezes at the poles.
2. Ours is majority nitrogen. Nitrogen is a crucial building block for DNA.
3. Nitrogen also makes clear atoms possible (which is why we can see through our atmosphere).
4. Water molecules in our atmosphere make breathing possible and are the best mix for transmitting light in the color spectrum.
5. Clouds cover 2/3 the earth at any given point. This not only brings life giving rain, but also regulates the earths temp by reflecting light and heat back into space.
6. The thickness of the atmosphere burns cosmic debris and meteorites.
5. The moon controls the tide, which cleans the ocean. Without it the oceans would be nothing but sewage and bacteria. The breaking waves also oxygenate the water allowing plankton to live.

1. Here is a very awesome fact about the moon. It is 1/400th the size of the sun, and the distance from the moon to the sun just happens to be 400 times greater than the distance from the earth to the moon. That means that when they line up, from our vantage point they appear to be the exact same size. That allows us to have perfect total eclipses, which is the only time we can study the sun’s atmosphere which is usually out shown by the sun. We are the only planet in the solar system with this privilege. I believe God knew we would one day have the ability to recognize that and was revealing Himself in the details of the universe.

6. 40 miles up is the ozone. Compressed it would only be ¼ inch thick. It filters out 8 types of deadly rays. It eliminates deadly long rays but lets through the short rays needed to sustain plant life. It does allow one deadly long ray through, but only small amounts. This is instrumental in keeping dangerous green algae in check.
7. Magnetic field protects us from radioactive solar winds.
1. In order to have the field we do, the earth has to have a metallic core, which it does.
2. The earth also has to be just the right size to maintain a liquid iron core.


After reading all this how can you deny existence of God.... either way you have to have Faith to believe for it or against it.

My last point I would like to make is this and I am paraphrasing Francis Chan's book "crazy love" God created everything. Who are we to judge what God did or has done. We are just extras in his movie. We have our 2/3 of a second scene and that is it. If we begin to understand and can rationally comprehend God, then he isn't much of a God.

He is beyond our intellect. Our mind cannot begin to understand who he really is. That in itself is amazing. We have exhausted the dictionary trying to come up with words that do not even do him justice to describe how wonderful he truly is.

Btw, take the Koran match it up with bible. No contest when it comes to accuracy. I am going off memory here and I am putting Koran at around 70% accurate between manuscripts. Where the bible has 40 different authors over the course of thousands of years and there is as accurate with exception of few spellings of names and what not. No other historical books comes close to that. It is documented and proven time and time again with other historical books out of the same era.

Yes Jews believed he died, Jews also believed he rose again. All the disciples were Jews. Jews were waiting for God to save them like he did out of Egypt, yet God had bigger and better plan.

Is there reason for us to tell others about Christ. Are you kidding me? God's love knows no bound. He took rejects who couldn't make it as disciples with any other Rabbi and entrusted them with carrying out his teachings. He took murderer of Christians and made him one of most influential New testament writers. He took David the worst son and made him King.

The bible is filled with wonderful stories of how God uses misfits and rejects to do the amazing. He believes that none should perish 2peter 3:9 and our love for him should drive us to be his hands and his feet.


Sorry for the lengthy post. I just copy pasted my teaching notes on Evolution to demostrate just how awesome God is.

Frischdad, how dare you bring up creationism, its just a myth! (sarcasm)


You guys all fail, no wonder why Christianity is dying.

I think there is really only two reasons why someone would want to become a Christian.




1) Is amazement, sheer amazement of what they do or teach or are saying. Many people have come to Christ because of just this. However, since a lot of the time, they dont have a community, or a very weak Christian community they go back to their old ways.

2) Needs met, before salvation. I have heard of a story of a door knocker, he knocked on the door of a house and this young mother came out holding her baby, the house smelt of smoke. He asked her, 'Do you want to hear the Good news?' She slammed the door. He was a bit stunned but went to the local shopping centre brought some nappies and some cigarettes and came back, he was invited in and was able to tell her the good news.


People dont care about theology to start off with, Would a patient he needed emergency operation want all the details of what is going to be done? of for the operation to happen? If we as Christian's do emergency operations, we support the community, help them in anyway they want...people will come to Jesus, Christianity.

This whole thread is about how Christianity is like a boring video game. It's like saying "Why play a boring video game worth playing if it's boring?" This is true about a boring video game. I'm not going to play a boring video game or watch a boring movie if it's boring. But salvation through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is not something as small as a boring video game. Like the post says above, stop trying to turn Christianity into some sort of a club.

And about Christianity dying... Again, you make it sound like it's a club or something that can just sort of die off. I dont get you lol.

For the comfort.
You get comfort in that you live forever if you do what God tells you to do.
You get comfort in hard times and have something to fall back on.
You get comfort when someone you know is in trouble, and you can pray to help them.
Etc.

The happy argument isn't a very good one. Religion can make people happier (I know several that it has worked for). On the other hand, not being part of religion could also make someone happy. It depends on the person.

Most churches I've been to have a very strong sense of community. Yes, there are some people that will stab you in the back, but they are everywhere. And if you don't "fit in", why would you be there out of choice in the first place? Find some place where you do "fit in" (if what you want is to "fit in").

I think most Christians would say for the salvation and because it is the truth.
However, I don't see any reasons why an outsider, for lack of a better word, would find Christianity as the more truthful religion.

No you are wrong. because after time video games get boring...

Lets compare it with drugs. Now if you knew a drug dealer and asked if he could give you dog poo he would think you are crazy.

No sane person is addicted or has the urge to try dog poo, why?

Its revolting
Its not addictive
And its sick.

If you set up a multimillion dollar organisation selling dog poo, you will go bankrupt!

BUT if you sell marijuana it will do well, its addictive, changes their users world.

If we try to sell Christianity as dog poo no one will want it (clearly we are selling it like dog poo with the statistics) BUT if we are going to sell Christianity as a drug (like the Pentecostals) People wont be able to get enough.

Lets say a person wants to buy a Honda Civic, they come to you as you are a car dealer and you say to the person, 'Yeah its an alright car, you could do better.' They wont buy the car BUT if you say, 'Oh man this car is great one of the most economical car I have seen my mate Bill has it and he cruises around a lot and less frequently refuels than other cars, its got a blue tooth stero and man when you drive this baby its sleek and sexy...'

I have two questions for you, why would someone want to become a Christian

AND

Should the Christian church stop selling dog poo?


I dont know how I make it sound like a club...Christianity is dying whether you like it or not.

Again, you cant compare Salvation through Jesus Christ, something that we all live for as Christians to a business. One should not belittle Christianity to the point that it's just "some religion that you can follow" or just "some thing that exists" It is the means to eternal salvation through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I believe that is a good enough reason to be Christian or to stay Christian if you believe that to be true?


So by that logic Christianity is dying and will probably just die off and go away. Cool, I wonder what the next popular religion will be to follow. I hear wicca is cool?... Lol I dont have that mentality. I believe with all my heart through Jesus Christ I am saved, I'm not just following some religion

look you can take that as how you want to, but if Christians dont change their mind set:

Christianity is true
Therefore everyone should want to be Christians

to something like:

People worry about themselves
Therefore if we support them, they most likely will see Jesus
Hence become a Christian.




Christianity is sick for those reasons. People just say, 'Jesus will never let that happen.'

Have you ever tried to cut wood with a rusty old hacksaw? Its quite difficult and most of the time the blade will break...If we are God's tools then how is God going to get anything done with rusty old blades?

I think if Christianity does sad fully die...Buddhism or wiccan will become major...lets hope that never happens

Absolutely, show them love, be kind and caring, supportive etc. But having our sins washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ is a great reason why someone would want to become a Christian imo. Did you mean for your question to be "what is it Christians should be doing to help others become Christians"? If so, then your previous post about how we should talk to non-Christians by supporting them etc I agree with.


The Holy Spirit which is a gift from God to spread the Gospel will keep Christianity from dieing. So technically saying "Jesus will never let that happen" is true. No matter how evil people got God sent his son to save us all. God didn't give us that gift because we were good and holy, but because we were all sinners and He loves us. So no matter how much Christians screw up God will put us back on track. Christianity will not die.

No. I meant exactly what I meant why would someone want to become a Christian?

Some called Billy never been to church why would he want to go to your church?



This is rather silly, and not even Biblically supported.

I knew a farmer once and he was so confident that God was going to give him the biggest potatoes the year, he told every one about. Got up at church and told how awesome God was. When the time of harvest came there was only dirt! why? he didnt put seeds in the ground!

This is what the church is doing. No offense but statements like, 'Jesus will never let that happen.' Is stupid.

This post has been edited by Solja247: Oct 31 2009, 10:25 PM

Cool, I answered that but you let me know afterwards what Christians should be doing. I agree with that.



God has never let His word die, it started with the Torah, then the additional OT books, then the NT and now there are billions of Christians. I dont see how God guiding us to keep His word is not Biblically supported. Thats about all God is doing for us in the Bible.

Let me try this differently

Why did Christianity spread?

a) Because people were playing Halo

Because people had big Bibles

c) Christians showed people, Jesus

d) Because churches were very tall, thus people could see them.

Which one is true.


Yet Christians are still too stupid to figure out how to bring more people to Jesus.

C. I wanna know where this is going lol.

So again, the question should be "What is it Christians should be doing to help others come to Jesus"


This post has been edited by Ronald: Oct 31 2009, 10:37 PM

God uses people to spread the message. God doesnt film in any movies, God hasnt been on American Idol, or even on the news so how are people going to learn about God?

How does Christianity spread?


I dont see why...you should start a new topic about that

I think part of it is people watch movies idolize those on tv shows like American Idol, or Hannah Montanna but still dont find hope. Much of the time they want to place their hope on some sort of diety and are led by God to God. However, there are many ways that God can help others come to Christ. Without God I could see myself wanting to idolize someone for closure, but it just isn't enough. Coming to terms with your own mortality is another reason one might be led to Christ.


Just because when it comes down to it, most of your rebuttles turn out to be about what Christians are doing wrong.

.

This post has been edited by Tickitytak: Nov 2 2009, 05:41 PM