"Tell of his salvation from day to day. Declare his glory among the nations, his marvelous works among all the peoples!" - 1 Chronicles 16:23-24
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God and hate |
 Oct 26 2009, 06:04 PM
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 Give us a scream.  Group: Gentryman Posts: 8,589 Joined: 27-August 07 From: Iridonia Member No.: 13,236 Gender : Female Name : Rave  |
I have read some members here (and other places) that God does hate some people. This is also confirmed in the book of Malachi:
QUOTE (Malachi:1:2-3 NASB) 2"I have (A)loved you," says the LORD But you say, "How have You loved us?" "Was not Esau Jacob's brother?" declares the LORD "Yet I (B)have loved Jacob; 3but I have hated Esau, and I have ©made his mountains a desolation and appointed his inheritance for the jackals of the wilderness." (No matter the translation, the word "hate" is used) Ok. My question is: who are the people that the Christian god hates? Does he hate these people based on sin or something else? Does he hate since they were born, or must they commit an evil act from their free will? I am talking about hating a person, not their sin. |
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Oct 26 2009, 06:32 PM
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Zephaniah 3:17 NIV  Group: Retired Staff Posts: 2,101 Joined: 12-November 07 From: Kentucky, U.S.A. Member No.: 14,433 Gender : Male Name : Joseph |
Out of His justice and holiness, God does hate sinners (non-Christians). That is from His justice. Non-Christians sin, and that sin is contrary to God's holiness. Therefore, when one sins, He is challenging the nature and authority of God.
Out of His love, God loved the people of this world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who has faith in him will have eternal life and never really die - John 3:16 CEV God is so great that we can't fathom Him. His love is so great that God actually payed your punishment. How anyone could hate and love at the same time is beyond me. But God does. 
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Oct 26 2009, 06:37 PM
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 I <3 Diana Group: Gentryman Posts: 5,010 Joined: 3-March 07 From: The Breath of Life (Genesis 2:7) Member No.: 10,515 Gender : Male Name : Isaiah |
QUOTE When studying the Bible, it is critically important to always study the context of a particular Bible verse or passage. In these instances, the Prophet Malachi and the Apostle Paul are using the name “Esau” to refer to the Edomites, who were the descendants of Esau. Isaac and Rebekah had two sons, Esau and Jacob. God chose Jacob (whom He later renamed Israel) to be the father of His chosen people, the Israelites. God rejected Esau (who was also called Edom), and did not choose him to be the father of His chosen people. Esau’s and his descendants, the Edomites, were in many ways blessed by God (Genesis 33:9; Genesis chapter 36).
So, considering the context, God loving Jacob and hating Esau has nothing to do with the human emotions of love and hate. It has everything to do with God choosing one man and his descendants and rejecting another man and his descendants. God choose Abraham out of all the men in the world. The Bible very well could say, “Abraham I loved, and every other man I hated.” God choose Abraham’s son Isaac instead of Abraham’s son Ishmael. The Bible very well could say, “Isaac I loved, and Ishmael I hated.” Romans chapter 9 makes it abundantly clear that loving Jacob and hating Esau was entirely related to which of them God chose. Hundreds of years after Jacob and Esau had died, the Israelites and Edomites became bitter enemies. The Edomites often aided Israel’s enemies in attacks on Israel. Esau’s descendants brought God’s curse upon themselves. Genesis 27:29 tells us, “May nations serve you and peoples bow down to you. Be lord over your brothers, and may the sons of your mother bow down to you. May those who curse you be cursed and those who bless you be blessed.” http://www.gotquestions.org/Jacob-Esau-love-hate.html |
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Oct 26 2009, 06:41 PM
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 Holy Roller Group: Resident Posts: 656 Joined: 26-December 06 From: Florida Member No.: 9,430 Gender : Male Name : Matthew |
QUOTE (JesusRocks4Me @ Oct 26 2009, 06:32 PM)  Out of His justice and holiness, God does hate sinners (non-Christians). That is from His justice. Non-Christians sin, and that sin is contrary to God's holiness. Therefore, when one sins, He is challenging the nature and authority of God. Out of His love, God loved the people of this world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who has faith in him will have eternal life and never really die - John 3:16 CEV God is so great that we can't fathom Him. His love is so great that God actually payed your punishment. How anyone could hate and love at the same time is beyond me. But God does. Well that was the most contradictory thing I've ever read. "God hates sinners! But He loves them so much He sent His only Son to save them." Uh... At least we THINK we know what you meant... This post has been edited by Matthew: Oct 26 2009, 06:43 PM |
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Oct 26 2009, 07:12 PM
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 Pope of Christian Unity Group: Gentryman Posts: 7,670 Joined: 17-May 08 Member No.: 18,075 Gender : Male Name : Bryce |
Hebrew is a language or radicals; there is no such thing as "warm," there is only hot and cold. What I mean to say is, it doesn't have ways of saying "God showed His love to this one person and didn't show it as much to this other person." For example, see Jesus' command for people to "Love Me and hate your parents." It's just a matter of the language He was using.
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Oct 26 2009, 08:56 PM
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 Undeserving Vessel of Mercy Group: Retired Staff Posts: 13,034 Joined: 24-February 05 From: Missouri Member No.: 1,242 Gender : Male Name : Jakob |
Let me say. PLEASE That John 3:16 is translated SO TERRIBLY in English. The word so is NOT an emphatic adverb! It's the worst translated word in the entire Bible, haha.
The word οὕτως is the word which is [poorly] translated as so. It means "In this way" or "in this manner." The Greek says "God in this way loved the kosmos. (Which is the Gr. word for 'world'). It's not emphatic, it's not some strong adverb or adjective, it is a word that is to be grammatically understood as "in this way" when it comes to the English language. And the argument that "God only hates a group of people and not the person" is more or less the exact same thing. "I don't hate Shaq, but I hate black people, so I really actually do hate Shaq, because he's black." People must so deeply understand the hatred of God before we can even begin to understand how deep God's love is, especially since we're undeserving of His love, and yet He willingly chooses to love some. For future reference, Paul quotes Malachi in Romans 9:11 I believe, which literally means hate there too. I know a good sermon on this, actually. If you want it, send me a PM. |
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Oct 27 2009, 02:39 AM
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 Jesus Freak Group: Resident Posts: 257 Joined: 24-September 09 From: Tennessee Member No.: 26,557 Gender : Not Telling Name : Rayn |
I just don't see hate in that scripture as an emotion. I like what Isaiah and Bryce say about it.
I think I understand the hatred of God very well in my own life. I sin so much more than I want to, and I hate sin ever so grievously, but I don't hate myself for messing up. I'm disappointed, however, and I get disgusted like Paul in Romans 7 when he so anxiously uttered, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" This post has been edited by Rayn: Oct 27 2009, 02:40 AM |
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Oct 27 2009, 07:23 AM
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Zephaniah 3:17 NIV Group: Retired Staff Posts: 2,101 Joined: 12-November 07 From: Kentucky, U.S.A. Member No.: 14,433 Gender : Male Name : Joseph |
Idk what I think of it either. I like what Isaiah said better than what I said.
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Oct 27 2009, 10:15 AM
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 Jedi Master  Group: Moderator Posts: 10,628 Joined: 10-September 06 From: Australia Member No.: 7,635 Gender : Male |
QUOTE (Rave) (No matter the translation, the word "hate" is used) Ok. My question is: who are the people that the Christian god hates? Does he hate these people based on sin or something else? Does he hate since they were born, or must they commit an evil act from their free will? I am talking about hating a person, not their sin. The issue here is the word "hate" in the old Biblical age does not mean the same thing it does today. There's a hopefully more helpful article here which touches on this type of thing. In the Bible passage you mention though, it would refer to the fact that Esau is receiving the worse treatment in comparison to Jacob, as he cheaply gave away the covenant with God he would have otherwise received from Isaac. Take the following other passages for example: Luke 16:13: No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. This would not refer to "hatred" in the sense that we would describe "hatred" today; if it did the passage would not make sense. Instead, the point is that you will show devotion to one and not the other. The same goes for a non-biblical text which is provided in the link above: Fitzmeyer's Lukan commentary offers this example from Poimandes 4:6: "If you do not hate your body first, O child, you will not be able to love yourself." Obviously, you would not "hate" your own body in this passage. Does this make more sense now?
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Oct 28 2009, 02:32 AM
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#10
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Give us a scream. Group: Gentryman Posts: 8,589 Joined: 27-August 07 From: Iridonia Member No.: 13,236 Gender : Female Name : Rave |
I understand that Yoda, but I do not understand what Jake and Joseph said.
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Oct 28 2009, 01:09 PM
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#11
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Undeserving Vessel of Mercy Group: Retired Staff Posts: 13,034 Joined: 24-February 05 From: Missouri Member No.: 1,242 Gender : Male Name : Jakob |
QUOTE (Yoda @ Oct 27 2009, 10:15 AM) The issue here is the word "hate" in the old Biblical age does not mean the same thing it does today. There's a hopefully more helpful article here which touches on this type of thing. In the Bible passage you mention though, it would refer to the fact that Esau is receiving the worse treatment in comparison to Jacob, as he cheaply gave away the covenant with God he would have otherwise received from Isaac. Take the following other passages for example: Luke 16:13: No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. This would not refer to "hatred" in the sense that we would describe "hatred" today; if it did the passage would not make sense. Instead, the point is that you will show devotion to one and not the other. The same goes for a non-biblical text which is provided in the link above: Fitzmeyer's Lukan commentary offers this example from Poimandes 4:6: "If you do not hate your body first, O child, you will not be able to love yourself." Obviously, you would not "hate" your own body in this passage. Does this make more sense now? Luke 16:13 Gr. Word: μισήσει Romans 9:13 Gr. Word: ἐμίσησα. Malachi 1:3 Heb. Word: שָׂנֵאתִי To equate Luke 16:13 and Romans 9:13 is a poor hermeneutic, because they're quite different words, and they both serve different purposes. My assertion, is that the Hebrew word for hate, and the Greek word for hate, are both literal hatred. Even more because when the Greeks translated the Septuagint, when it came to Malachi 1:3, they actually used the Gr. Word εμισησα much like Paul did in Romans 9. We can not equate the two Greek words to mean the same thing, because in this case they do not. The Hebrew word most commonly used in the OT was hatred, and the same thing applies for the Gr. word εμισησα. God is under no obligation to love anyone or anything now that we have been made into a horrid substance and image in His eyes because of our sin. Studying and reading Romans 9 might be the best thing to help you guys understand. This problem is resolved in Calvinism, I find. |
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