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Jordan

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About Jordan

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  • Birthday 01/24/1986

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  1. Jordan

    Universalism: Shall All Be Saved?

    Interesting that you bring up Paul, who's encounter with Jesus immediately turned Him from a great persecutor of the faith to one greatly persecuted because of his joining the faith. It's telling how whenever we see a human, regardless of status, encounter God fully they leave from that encounter forever changed. It's a story that to me, alludes to the hope for all mankind that they will one day all have a similar encounter with the Lord and be forever changed.
  2. Jordan

    Universalism: Shall All Be Saved?

    Revelation 22:14-15 is speaking of those who have washed their robes, those who have died in the Great Tribulation (Revelation 7). The City is that prior to the Second Death, before the new heavens and earth are created, when the city is besieged by the wicked and God rains fire on them. I truly don't understand why you could mistaken that it is speaking of after the New Heavens and Earth have come into existence, the verses before and after it references things before the creation of all things new. When I read "all" I don't consider it to mean anything but that. You don't mix old wine with new wine and call it "new". The phrase "makes all things new" is the qualifier. The former things have passed away, they are gone, over, dealt with, and no more. For me, sin, repentance, and what we can look forward to should be at the heart of our understanding and studying, because Christ is the center of that. How can we know what the Good News is without that understanding? God does not blind His children from the truth and in fact Jesus promises that if we ask we shall receive it in Matthew 7. We don't have to be left wondering- we can find out and know!
  3. Jordan

    Universalism: Shall All Be Saved?

    What do you believe in terms of God's will, God's plan, and God's sovereignty? How would you approach and reconcile the seemingly contradictory views of a God who desires for all to be saved, who doesn't wish for any to perish, and who will create a sinless existence with an eternal state of hopelessness and suffering within that existence? I think that would help us get to some level of understanding where we are at in our theology. it helps to see how one presents and views the problem of evil and suffering when there exists a seemingly all loving and powerful God who should be able to prevent it but appears not to. I'd be interested in reading your views on such matters.
  4. Jordan

    Universalism: Shall All Be Saved?

    I'm on my mobile and tried to respond then my phone somehow refreshed and the writing went away. I'll condense it. Revelation 22:14-15 doesn't seem to be talking about after the New Heaven and Earth to me, the context seems to be prior to it, as Jesus says he will come soon in verse 12-13. It would also seem to contradict the clear writing of Revelation 21 which says all things will be new and there will be no more death, pain, and sorrow. The Kingdom theology would take a lot to flesh out. In a nutshell, I believe Jesus is speaking of the Kingdom of God in reference to the authority of God- The {authority} of God is in your midst, and he tells Pilate my Kingdom (authority) is not OF this world, because if it was his followers would have fought against those who sought his capture. Indicating essentially that his message is not of a physical kingdom of God, not of a literal reign on earth and not to worry about a physical revolt but that his message is about a spiritual revival because the authority of God is here now. God with us. We can inherit this authority from Jesus. This can radically change the understanding of many passages about the kingdom of God as some understand it. Ine such understanding is how Jesus said that all this would come to pass within that generation's lifetime, and indeed the kingdom of God did.
  5. Jordan

    Universalism: Shall All Be Saved?

    I think there is a clear difference between the New Heavens and Earth which will have no trace of the former sinful state of existence and the passages referencing the Lake of Fire, which is the second death, before the New Heavens and Earth are in existence. You can't claim "all things new" and no pain, sorrow, and death and then say hell exists with all of that. Hell is no more, it's been thrown into the Lake of Fire at that point. There will be no one left in need of salvation, no one left with sin. The Kingdom of Heaven is present, right now. Those who will not inherit it do not partake in that Kingdom. That Kingdom is not part of the New Heavens and Earth, which is "all things new." Like Jesus said, my Kingdom is not of this world, it's a spiritual world. The New Heavens and Earth is a physical world which we will live in. I'm on my mobile so sorry for the brief response.
  6. Jordan

    Universalism: Shall All Be Saved?

    That's a wonderful passage, which I believe is true, yet not for eternity. Because Revelation 21 tells us there will be a time when all suffering will be no more, a new Heaven and Earth will be created. Even hell was cast into the lake of fire, it's usefulness expired. But that's what Universalists have joy in, we don't believe our shortcomings will ever prevent God's power from saving us, from turning us back to Love and changing us to a glorified state. Nothing we do can forever separate us from God's Love, because Love perseveres in all things, not some or most. If there was but one sinner in need for salvation would God not have conquered death to save that one sinner? Of course! He could have had 99 sheep and still yet go and search for the one lost sheep and bring it home. We can't resist God's desire forever, we can't stop Love from its victory! I used to get very upset over this, but I realized that it doesn't matter if others accept this message now. It won't change God's plan, it won't prevent Love from finishing what it set out to do. A friend who believes in eternal hell can motivate themselves to God's work just as well. But it is likewise sad to see such a humanistic view of God shadow a glorious loving one. I've seen how upset a loved one is, truly heart broken that one they loved the most they couldn't save in this life and how they believed they had lost forever. That's not God's victory, that's such a hollow view of God's love and power. I believe in a God who can and will save everyone. Nothing can stop it.
  7. Jordan

    My Faith

    Great! I wish you the best in your journey.
  8. Jordan

    I have phew questions about religion..

    I wish you the best in your life's journey and hope you find Love and experience everything from it.
  9. Jordan

    10 years

    What a time warp right?
  10. Jordan

    The Problem with Seventh Day Adventism

    Growing up an Adventist, I felt and continue to feel that many people misrepresent their theology, and that goes on both isles. But I feel ultimately there are great people within the Adventist church, who are devoted to knowing God and leading others to God. I certainly feel like people use theological knowledge erroneously at times and cause needless division and distractions. The Early Apostles spoke a lot about this, and continually called all to preach Christ crusified and remain in communion with one another. To this day I remain a vegetarian. I don't even consider it a matter at all one way or another. I don't observe the Sabbath, nor do I hold to the theology of the three angels message they promote. But they are my brothers and sisters, and they lift Christ up as all are asked to. I don't put them down, single them out, or ridicule their beliefs. I respect them and their beliefs.
  11. Jordan

    Universalism: Shall All Be Saved?

    Zabby you warmed my heart with your response here! I recall the last time we discussed this topic a few years ago. The Universal Salvation position is centered and focused on Love. One of the most powerful descriptions ever written of God is that God is Love. That infectious, irresistible, unquenchable love. The Love that Paul hopelessly tries to describe in human terms in Corinthians, the Love that sends the Son, only begotten, to die in a miserable suffering we don't and won't fully understand to conqueror every obstacle that could possibly separate Love and us. Love that we see but a glimpse of but see more fully as we walk in the presence of. The glorious Love no one will deny nor be denied of, because nothing can separate us from it nor take us out of its hand. All will confess to that Love and submit to it. That's the Good News, that is the gospel, that Love will reunite everyone to itself and we will be with Love forever more where all sadness, sorrow, impurities and death, everything that is contrary to Love is no more nor remembered of. Sorry for resurrecting an old topic. Blessings to everyone!
  12. Jordan

    The Christian should die.

    No, the early church was absolutely against violence of any sort. Here are several quotes from the early church leaders; “But now inquiry is being made concerning these issues. First, can any believer enlist in the military? Second, can any soldier, even those of the rank and file or lesser grades who neither engage in pagan sacrifices nor capital punishment, be admitted into the church? No on both counts—for there is no agreement between the divine sacrament and the human sacrament, the standard of Christ and the standard of the devil, the camp of light and the camp of darkness. One soul cannot serve two masters—God and Caesar…But how will a Christian engage in war—indeed, how will a Christian even engage in military service during peacetime—without the sword, which the Lord has taken away? For although soldiers had approached John to receive instructions and a centurion believed, this does not change the fact that afterward, the Lord, by disarming Peter, disarmed every soldier. Under no circumstances should a true Christian draw the sword.” -Tertullian “The devil is the author of all war. We, who used to kill one another, do not make war on our enemies. We refuse to tell lies or deceive our inquisitors; we prefer to die acknowledging Christ.” - Justin Martyr “Christians are not allowed to kill, but they must be ready to be put to death themselves… it is not permitted the guiltless to put even the guilty to death. God wished iron to be used for the cultivation of the earth, and therefore it should not be used to take human life.”-Cyprian
  13. Jordan

    Should we kill the abortion doctors?

    There is a legal difference between killing and murder, and possibly moral difference. I don't know why you thought I seemed to make no difference between the two from my first post. Earlier in this thread you mentioned that we have to change people's hearts to believe it is wrong to end abortion, and I think that is the answer for this.
  14. Jordan

    Should we kill the abortion doctors?

    Your scenario isn't equal to the one I responded to. The former is murder, the latter is killing.
  15. Jordan

    Should we kill the abortion doctors?

    Murdering one person to save, say, 1,000 unborn doesn't release you from the vileness of having murdered the one person. It is also hypocritical to stop potential murder by murdering.
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