blissful Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Originally posted by priest@Apr 1 2005, 12:03 PM fine first question Its was GOD who heard MArys cry because Mary always wants to help but first she has to ask GOD for these miracles to happen becasue remember everything comes from GOD. And second iam 15 close to sixteen years old and seriously want to become a franciscan priest dedicate my life to GOD and serve the poor. I applaud your zeal, even though your beliefs don't agree with mine. Anyway, I meant I wanted actual verses supporting your claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blissful Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Originally posted by CrossedOver43524@Apr 1 2005, 02:40 PM First off, let me say that we need to keep the caps down. I'm almost positive that it says something in the rules against all caps. Second, how do you know that these "miracles" aren't some scheme conjured up to take the focus off of God? I wouldn't put it past Satan to go that low...in fact, we all know from the Bible that Satan masquerades as an angel of light. I find it quite interesting that your dad called out to the virgin Mary instead of God...personally, I would think that the more powerful One would be the one to call out to, unless you somehow believe that Mary is more powerful than God. Plus, we have Biblical backing that whatever we ask in JESUS NAME, it will be given to us (1 John 5:16 or thereabouts). I find no assurance in the Bible that Mary or any other dead people can answer prayers. Basically what you've said for proof that we should pray to Mary is that she performed some mircales. Well, I'm saying that those miracles could've just as easily be Satan trying to take the focus from God. I do not believe that Mary has any power whatsoever to answer prayers, offer forgiveness, or perform miracles. She was a human just like any other. Sure she was called by God to do something, but so were the thousands and thousands of other people that have done things for God. Last time I checked, nothing happens when you pray to CS Lewis or someone modern like that... Right on CrossedOver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oceaneyesforGod Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Okay i am a protesent, and pray to God. Some people havew said this before but lets think, if someone who dident confert people gave birth to Jesus would u pary to her? Mother Tersaa conferted people, do we pary to her, no. Okay i have said my peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest Posted April 1, 2005 Author Share Posted April 1, 2005 I know that GOD found and favoured her. ANd when I pray to her I say to pray for me when I die and pray that when i will be judged by GOD that she will praying for me to go to heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oli10up Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Do you believe that without her prayers for you, Christ won't hear, heed or kelp you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blissful Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 I know that GOD found and favoured her. ANd when I pray to her I say to pray for me when I die and pray that when i will be judged by GOD that she will praying for me to go to heaven. But the Bible says we must confess for ourselves, therefore asking Mary to save you is useless in that matter. You decide if you will go to heaven. Do you have any Biblical references as of yet? I'm not sure if you're used to debating, but you must always have real evidence to back you up (unless, of course, it is asking for an opinion). Unfortunately, only saying something doesn't always cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest Posted April 1, 2005 Author Share Posted April 1, 2005 Mary said all the generations will call me blessed so did the angel gabriel when he told her she was having a baby there thats your biblical reference now we need her help to get through certain things in our lives since she is Christs mother we need her to come closer to Jesus Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslittlegirl121 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 alright priest i have a question for you. Why do you pray to Mary to intercede for you, when you know God is there, and is always ready to listen???? Or atleast i know God is there and ready to listen. Please answer.!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest Posted April 1, 2005 Author Share Posted April 1, 2005 I pray because she has helped me overcome so many obstacles and she helped me get closer to GOD and i know with my prayers here on earth she will ask GOD for me to come into HIs glorious kingdom if it wasn't for JESUS CHRIST GODS ONLY SON OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR AND THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY MOTHER OF GOD AND OUR MOTHER APOCALYPSE WOULD BE SOONER THEN EVER! JESUS CHRIST, MARY, and the SAINTS are the ones praying to GOD to save the world from Apocalypse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blissful Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Originally posted by priest@Apr 1 2005, 04:13 PM Mary said all the generations will call me blessed so did the angel gabriel when he told her she was having a baby there thats your biblical reference now we need her help to get through certain things in our lives since she is Christs mother we need her to come closer to Jesus Christ. I know what Gabriel told her, but that doesn't have to with what you're saying. She was a blessed woman because she was chosen out of many women. If you're going to be a priest like you said you want to be, debates could end up being a good area for you to work with. I'm a Sunday school teacher, and I like to know how I can answer the children's questions to the best of my ability. When I say Biblical references, I mean the book of the Bible, chapter, the verse(s), as well as why you are using the references you are using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest Posted April 1, 2005 Author Share Posted April 1, 2005 BEginning of The Holy Gospel of Luke were it says Marys song Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest Posted April 1, 2005 Author Share Posted April 1, 2005 By the way one of your advertisments sells Catholic stuff like Satues and books about the Blessed Virgin MAry good going and iam not being sarcastic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest Posted April 1, 2005 Author Share Posted April 1, 2005 If you want to find about the catholic church more better and about mary go to www.newadvent.org look up M and go to Mary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blissful Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Originally posted by priest@Apr 1 2005, 04:37 PM By the way one of your advertisments sells Catholic stuff like Satues and books about the Blessed Virgin MAry good going and iam not being sarcastic! Yeah, the advertisements use the keywords of the topic to generate ads at the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blissful Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Priest: I wanted information from you on what you believe and why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest Posted April 1, 2005 Author Share Posted April 1, 2005 Heres the creed apostoles creed I believe in God, the Father Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell. The third day He arose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty, whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blissful Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Okay...but why did you post this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priest Posted April 1, 2005 Author Share Posted April 1, 2005 Because thats what I believe and you said what you believe I also Believe In the BLESSED VIRGIN MARY THE HOLY MOTHER OF GOD THE MOTHER OF ALL MOTHERS AND THE HOLY QUEEN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oceaneyesforGod Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Well, in the Bible it says nothing about Mary being holy queen, i respect her and know she is wonderful but i dont expect her to keep me safe, I pray to God. And guys lets not fight, it looks like Priest is being attakecd to me, not purpsfully but u might be offending him. He isent being rude, simpoly stateing something he belives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oli10up Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 I didn't mean to attack, if that's how it looked. I think since he's the one representing his beliefs while there are more on the other side it may seem kinda like we're ganging up on him. Just to say this, I'm just trying to understand your point of view priest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oli10up Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Originally posted by priest@Apr 1 2005, 04:13 PM Mary said all the generations will call me blessed so did the angel gabriel when he told her she was having a baby there thats your biblical reference now we need her help to get through certain things in our lives since she is Christs mother we need her to come closer to Jesus Christ. I respect what you said, however, I don't agree. The God that I know is omnicient, omnipowerful, and omnipresent. These characteristics give me no reason to believe that I need a middle man for my prayers to be heard. Also, comming at it from a different angle...I am a sinner. Before I was a saved believer my prayers would not have been answered by God. After believing in Christ and praying the "sinner's prayer" Christs blood covered me and the Holy Spirit became the intercessor of my prayers. I feel that being a child of God (adopted of course) my father hears my prayers without the need of another human petitioning that I be heard. I hope that came across as intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blissful Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 I didn't want to seem if I were attacking him either, but this topic is based on opposing doctrines at this point. Telling others what you think is good, but we need a reason why also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proud_orthodox_guy Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Ok, first off, I like debating on this and would love to keep this open, but please keep the caps down. For a few pages it was more of a fight than a debate here. That goes for everyone here not just Priest. I am going through a similar thing as priest, not just on the forum but in life too, and I know why he gets frustrated, even angry, because people say that we worship the saints. That is a very commen misconception with non Orthodox/Catholic denomonations. We worship God and God alone, and parying to Mary will not save us any more than people's prayers on earth. Another, why do we even NEED to pray through the saints? Are we too afraid that God's answering machine will get too jammed and He won't be able to answer all of our prayers? Why do we need ask people who are on earth to pray for us? We pray to God through them. I also do not believe that Mary should be given the same status as God (i.e. receiving prayer and worship) She is not given the same staus as God or worshiped. One more thing, not everything is written down word for word in the Bible. The Bible is not a history text book. It doesn't tell you every single detail of the saints' lives. There are other records you know. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proud_orthodox_guy Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 "sinner's prayer" Since we are on the subject of Bible refrences, if everything is in the Bible where is the "sinners prayer"? And if salvation is by faith alone and works don't not matter, isn't praying that prayer a work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oli10up Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 What I meant by "sinners prayer" was not a specific set of words that must be prayed to be a Christian. I meant that I prayed to God aknowledging that I am a sinner and that I need His salvation and love. Also, that if I desired to spend eternity with Him that I needed His son's blood to cover my sins. This prayer that I prayed is not considered a "work" in the sense you are saying. This prayer was my confessing with my mouth to God that I did in fact need Him and that I wanted to live my life in a godly way for His glory. There is no sinner's prayer in the Bible, just that we are to have faith and pray to God. Salvation is by faith alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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