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Coach Ham

Masturbation problem

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ok. long story short, I started Masturbatin when I was about 11, before i knew it had become a nightly habit, usually right before I go to bed. I know its wrong and I want to stop, but It just too tempting. So my question is do u guys have any tips that might help me out with this problem?

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ok. long story short, I started Masturbatin when I was about 11, before i knew it had become a nightly habit, usually right before I go to bed. I know its wrong and I want to stop, but It just too tempting. So my question is do u guys have any tips that might help me out with this problem?[/b]

I'll tell you right now: here you'll get lots of different opinions on masturbation. I believe that if you have talked it over with God and still believe it's wrong, then you need to try your hardest to not do it.

At the heart of the issue is your Thought Life. What you experience during the day sticks with you: everything you see and hear, especially. In order to lessen the temptation to masturbate and lust, guard your heart and mind. Be careful about what you put into your mind through your eyes and ears. If you start thinking in the gutter, drag yourself out of it with prayer and resistance to temptation.

If you aren't, start reading your Bible more often, and pray every night before you go to bed instead of masturbating. Fill your life with Godly things, and you will find it easier to resist sin.

Do I have a cure-all for you? I'm afraid not. Remember that if you masturbate and you believe you sinned, then simply ask forgiveness from God, repent of it, pick yourself up, and move on.

Is masturbation by itself a sin? I don't believe so, and the Bible doesn't even mention it. However, I believe masturbation with lust is a sin. It can be done without sin, but I believe that is fairly rare. God created us as sexual beings. He knows what we feel and what we struggle with. That means that simply having sexual desire and wanting to act on that is not wrong. It becomes wrong when we seek to fulfill those desires in a way that God has forbidden: in this case, it sounds like lust.

God will give you the strength you need to carry on, and be successful, even though you may falter on the way.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:9 (KJV)

If you'd like to talk about this more, feel free to PM me.

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I'll tell you right now: here you'll get lots of different opinions on masturbation. I believe that if you have talked it over with God and still believe it's wrong, then you need to try your hardest to not do it.

At the heart of the issue is your Thought Life. What you experience during the day sticks with you: everything you see and hear, especially. In order to lessen the temptation to masturbate and lust, guard your heart and mind. Be careful about what you put into your mind through your eyes and ears. If you start thinking in the gutter, drag yourself out of it with prayer and resistance to temptation.

If you aren't, start reading your Bible more often, and pray every night before you go to bed instead of masturbating. Fill your life with Godly things, and you will find it easier to resist sin.

Do I have a cure-all for you? I'm afraid not. Remember that if you masturbate and you believe you sinned, then simply ask forgiveness from God, repent of it, pick yourself up, and move on.

Is masturbation by itself a sin? I don't believe so, and the Bible doesn't even mention it. However, I believe masturbation with lust is a sin. It can be done without sin, but I believe that is fairly rare. God created us as sexual beings. He knows what we feel and what we struggle with. That means that simply having sexual desire and wanting to act on that is not wrong. It becomes wrong when we seek to fulfill those desires in a way that God has forbidden: in this case, it sounds like lust.

God will give you the strength you need to carry on, and be successful, even though you may falter on the way.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:9 (KJV)

If you'd like to talk about this more, feel free to PM me.[/b]

Thanks :) I believe the same thing, about it only being a sin when you lust, and unfortunatly thats what I end up doing most of the time. So that's why i'm tryin to stop

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I dont see a problem with masterbation...its perfectly healthy as far as I am concerned :)

no sex is involved, or stds, or risk. its not premarital sex or anything

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I dont see a problem with masterbation...its perfectly healthy as far as I am concerned :)

no sex is involved, or stds, or risk. its not premarital sex or anything

There is a problem with masturbation, however. While the Bible does not speak a single word of it throughout the entire text, masturbation is still not a recommended practice. Why is that? That is because of what occurs while one masturbates: intense sexual fantisies, which is lust which is equated to adultry. Also, the act itself is quite selfish in nature. You are only focused upon yourself and the sexual feelings that you want to feel.

So, overall the inital act of masturbation is not wrong persay. However, it is what occurs in your mind that makes this practice a "deadly sin."

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Hey

I was in the position early this year. I really wanted to stop masturbation as I was fairly new to Christianity. I gave up for about a month and a half ( I know that doesn't seem much to some people but for people like are selves it becomes a ritual) One of the main reasons I started again was because I found myself getting really stressed out, lusting ( even more then when I was masturbating ) and I know this sounds strange but less happy then normal. After hours of research and prayer I know now that masturbation is absolutely fine. It was said previously but GOD made us all sexual beings. The fact that we masturbate is completely normal and healthy. I learnt to control my lusting and have now stopped. I don't think you need to give up masturbation all together but pray to GOD every day / night until you find what he thinks is right for you. If you cannot control your urges even with the help of GOD I think then you should stop masturbating.

Really hope this helps you

Anthony

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Hey

I was in the position early this year. I really wanted to stop masturbation as I was fairly new to Christianity. I gave up for about a month and a half ( I know that doesn't seem much to some people but for people like are selves it becomes a ritual) One of the main reasons I started again was because I found myself getting really stressed out, lusting ( even more then when I was masturbating ) and I know this sounds strange but less happy then normal. After hours of research and prayer I know now that masturbation is absolutely fine. It was said previously but GOD made us all sexual beings. The fact that we masturbate is completely normal and healthy. I learnt to control my lusting and have now stopped. I don't think you need to give up masturbation all together but pray to GOD every day / night until you find what he thinks is right for you. If you cannot control your urges even with the help of GOD I think then you should stop masturbating.

Really hope this helps you

Anthony

Anthony, I do agree with what you are saying. It is a matter of personal conviction because due to the fact that there is nothing really given in Scripture about the act. I really liked what you had to say about the subject. The reasoing that I will give for my response is for the sake of generally speaking to prevent leading a brother astray. Yet, I still stand behind my response due to what does occur when one does do the act of masturbation. I also want to note that this very topic is one that is highly debated among biblical scholars. So, various views will be found on this topic.

I hope that this helps all of us out as we all, as brothers, strive to stay away from lust.

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Just because something is not explicitly mentioned in scripture as a sin doesn't mean it isn't wrong. Human cloning is not mentioned in scripture, but I am the vast majority of us would see it as wrong, because it is. The morality of masturbation is not about personal conviction, if determining whether or not something is sinful is a matter of personal conviction, then every other sin is up for debate, because people can argue for any position no matter how outrageous it may sound. 100 years ago, you wouldn't see any Christians condoning premarital sex, but it is becoming increasingly acceptable for many Christians to condone premarital sex with some random rules attached (as long as you are engaged, in a "committed relationship", etc) This is relativism; it strips Truth and objective morality away from our actions and replaces them with cliches like "do it, if it feels right for you." Scripture must be applied with reason, and taking what we know about Christian sexual ethics, sexual organs were meant to be used in the context of sexual relationship which is reserved for marriage. It's that simple. Masturbation is completely self centered and distorts the entire purpose of sexual pleasure, organs, relationship, etc.

People who say its perfectly fine really need to take a step back and look at the issue objectively, because I bet the people that claim that its perfectly moral are doing it themselves so they clearly would be coming from a biased perspective, trying to justify what they do because they don't want to stop.

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Just because something is not explicitly mentioned in scripture as a sin doesn't mean it isn't wrong. Human cloning is not mentioned in scripture, but I am the vast majority of us would see it as wrong, because it is. The morality of masturbation is not about personal conviction, if determining whether or not something is sinful is a matter of personal conviction, then every other sin is up for debate, because people can argue for any position no matter how outrageous it may sound. 100 years ago, you wouldn't see any Christians condoning premarital sex, but it is becoming increasingly acceptable for many Christians to condone premarital sex with some random rules attached (as long as you are engaged, in a "committed relationship", etc) This is relativism; it strips Truth and objective morality away from our actions and replaces them with cliches like "do it, if it feels right for you." Scripture must be applied with reason, and taking what we know about Christian sexual ethics, sexual organs were meant to be used in the context of sexual relationship which is reserved for marriage. It's that simple. Masturbation is completely self centered and distorts the entire purpose of sexual pleasure, organs, relationship, etc.

People who say its perfectly fine really need to take a step back and look at the issue objectively, because I bet the people that claim that its perfectly moral are doing it themselves so they clearly would be coming from a biased perspective, trying to justify what they do because they don't want to stop.

Ditto to what you said.

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Guest EternalPeace

Ok your first issue is that you think this is a "problem". Let me tell you something, It's NOT. Medical research has shown that it's can be quite unhealthy to Masturbate, especially for long periods of time. Masturbation can prevent certain cancers in that area (prostate cancer for example). And doing it will calm you down and lower your blood pressure, as the Swedes say: "An orgasm a day keeps the doctors away". Also, another problem is that other people have led you to believe that it is wrong. It isn't, you need to make your own opinions and stop giving in to what other people around you say. Independence my friend. It is what made America.

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Ok your first issue is that you think this is a "problem". Let me tell you something, It's NOT. Medical research has shown that it's can be quite unhealthy to Masturbate, especially for long periods of time. Masturbation can prevent certain cancers in that area (prostate cancer for example). And doing it will calm you down and lower your blood pressure, as the Swedes say: "An orgasm a day keeps the doctors away". Also, another problem is that other people have led you to believe that it is wrong. It isn't, you need to make your own opinions and stop giving in to what other people around you say. Independence my friend. It is what made America.

Did you mean "healthy", instead of "unhealthy"? Besides this, its not necessarily the physical aspects of masturbation which he may be concerned with, but the spiritual ones, the motives, the fantasies of the mind, etc. These are what usually makes masturbation sinful, to my knowledge.

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As Matt said, it is a distortion of God's purpose for sex, which is meant to be enjoyed between the husband and wife for mutual satisfaction.

If you want to keep your member healthy, exercise it with kegels and use bloodflow increasing massage techniques.

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As Matt said, it is a distortion of God's purpose for sex, which is meant to be enjoyed between the husband and wife for mutual satisfaction.

Could you demonstrate this using Scripture?

If you want to keep your member healthy, exercise it with kegels and use bloodflow increasing massage techniques.

Just use such bloodflow techniques carefully. They can injure severely if done incorrectly. Incidentally, EternalPeace was right, to my knowledge, when he mentioned the health benefits of masturbation. Pure physical benefits (in more than one way), don't give a guy license to sin (if indeed masturbation is a sin).

I'd just like to know where in Scripture you find any mention of masturbation, let alone it being a distortion of God's purpose for marriage (and no, before you might ask, the story of Onan isn't about masturbation).

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I'd just like to know where in Scripture you find any mention of masturbation, let alone it being a distortion of God's purpose for marriage (and no, before you might ask, the story of Onan isn't about masturbation).

It isn't in scripture. Neither are things like human cloning or genetically engineered babies. But something should perturb you about these things based on what we know about God's plan for human sexuality and by extension the family.

We know that God desires us to abstain from sex until marriage, we know His plan for marriage is one man and one woman. So we know that the only proper place for sexual relationship is within the context of marriage.

Now, are our sexual faculties only to be used in the context of a sexual relationship (marriage)? I say yes. To try and separate sexual pleasure from sexual relationship is a distortion of God's plan for sexuality, it is entirely self serving. It is about giving you the most amount of pleasure because you want to feel good, its not about any sort of relationship which your sexual organs are meant for. Even just looking at the anatomy of the human body, you know what the organs are meant for and they are not meant for you to gratify yourself.

Now consider fornication, what is wrong with it? Not only is it simply lust, but it goes against God's plan for sexuality because you try to strip sex and sexual pleasure from its proper context which is in marriage. The same thing is being done in masturbation, not only do you take the sexual pleasure out of the proper context in marriage, but you take the entire aspect of a relationship out of it and make it entirely about self. I don't see how it could ever be recognized as morally right, Catholics oppose it, Orthodox oppose it, all the major protestant reformers opposed it so I don't know where someone who thinks its okay would turn to other than their own opinion.

And as I said above, human cloning and genetically engineered babies are not mentioned in scripture, but I'd like to think we as Christians have gained enough of a grasp on God's plan for the family and sexuality to get at least a feeling that something seems off with these things. We shouldn't be messing with God's plan of creation like you would be doing in these things, you should not get to decide if your baby has green eyes or blue eyes, or if they will have black hair or blond hair, or if they are smarter than everyone else, this is eugenics and it was a driving force behind one of the worst genocides in history. You should not selfishly seek to create a clone of yourself or someone else and play God with these things. Children should be made through the natural ability He gave to man to produce offspring, I don't see how any Christian could disagree with this and yet it isn't in scripture, but there are plenty of things in scripture which allow us to know how God wants us to live as human beings and how we should deal with things like sex, marriage, and family.

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It isn't in scripture. Neither are things like human cloning or genetically engineered babies. But something should perturb you about these things based on what we know about God's plan for human sexuality and by extension the family.

We know that God desires us to abstain from sex until marriage, we know His plan for marriage is one man and one woman. So we know that the only proper place for sexual relationship is within the context of marriage.

Abstain from sex until marriage? Yes. Only heterosexual marriage? Yes. Even the only proper place for a sexual /relationship/ is marriage? Sure.

What about people who are never married, whether by choice or not? They're still sexual beings.

Now, are our sexual faculties only to be used in the context of a sexual relationship (marriage)? I say yes. To try and separate sexual pleasure from sexual relationship is a distortion of God's plan for sexuality, it is entirely self serving. It is about giving you the most amount of pleasure because you want to feel good, its not about any sort of relationship which your sexual organs are meant for. Even just looking at the anatomy of the human body, you know what the organs are meant for and they are not meant for you to gratify yourself.

I woudl agree as far as premarital sex and other relational sexual offenses are concerned: to try and separate the pleasure of sex from the responsibility is to distort God's plan for sex. However, my previous statement can apply here: what about people who are/will remain single, for whatever reason? God still created them as intimately sexual beings.

The thing is . . . masturbation isn't in a relationship. It's not even having sex with anyone. It would seem at least possible then, that the specific laws governing sexual relations don't necessarily apply to masturbation (hence possibly why masturbation is never mentioned in Scripture).

Now consider fornication, what is wrong with it? Not only is it simply lust, but it goes against God's plan for sexuality because you try to strip sex and sexual pleasure from its proper context which is in marriage. The same thing is being done in masturbation, not only do you take the sexual pleasure out of the proper context in marriage, but you take the entire aspect of a relationship out of it and make it entirely about self. I don't see how it could ever be recognized as morally right, Catholics oppose it, Orthodox oppose it, all the major protestant reformers opposed it so I don't know where someone who thinks its okay would turn to other than their own opinion.

Rightly so--I agree, as far as fornication goes. Now . . . as I said, masturbation isn't in a relationship. It would seem that relational rules may not apply then.

I said above, human cloning and genetically engineered babies are not mentioned in scripture
, but I'd like to think we as Christians have gained enough of a grasp on God's plan for the family and sexuality to get at least a feeling that something seems off with these things. We shouldn't be messing with God's plan of creation like you would be doing in these things, you should not get to decide if your baby has green eyes or blue eyes, or if they will have black hair or blond hair, or if they are smarter than everyone else, this is eugenics and it was a driving force behind one of the worst genocides in history. You should not selfishly seek to create a clone of yourself or someone else and play God with these things. Children should be made through the natural ability He gave to man to produce offspring, I don't see how any Christian could disagree with this and yet it isn't in scripture, but there are plenty of things in scripture which allow us to know how God wants us to live as human beings and how we should deal with things like sex, marriage, and family.

All true. The question here is this: Are such things of the same type of issue as masturbation? Given the rules which can be applied from scripture to them, and the lack thereof (besides general rules about lust) which can apply to masturbation . . . I find a connection questionable.

Note that I'm not necessarily advancing a position yet . . . just considering pros and cons.

In the end, I feel the best answer is still between the individual and God, purely because Scripture doesn't say anything specific. Anything specific, therefore, is speculation. Some of it may be good, but it would still seem to be speculation. Only the general rules of Scripture governing sexual behavior would seem to apply here.

However, I'll continue to see if I can find a more specific position, through consulting God, scripture, and various Christian thinkers.

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Abstain from sex until marriage? Yes. Only heterosexual marriage? Yes. Even the only proper place for a sexual /relationship/ is marriage? Sure.

What about people who are never married, whether by choice or not? They're still sexual beings.

Those who are not able to get married are dealt a tough hand, and are called by God to live a life of Chastity. The same applies for someone who is physically unable to be in such a relationship such as someone who may have become paralyzed from the waist down, they are still a sexual being, but that does not legitimize any outlet for that sexuality that they want. For example they wouldn't be permitted to view pornography as the outlet of their sexuality. Such things are among the toughest crosses someone can be given, but that doesn't change the fact that we are all called to take up our crosses and follow Him no matter how light or heavy.

And if it is someone's choice not to marry, then that is their choice, and they should acknowledge that in choosing not to marry they have also chosen not to utilize the sexual faculties God gave them which are to be exclusively used in the context of a sexual relationship in marriage. The organs are made for sex, they aren't having sex, so they shouldn't be trying to use them to get sexual pleasure which is exclusive to the sexual relationship in marriage.

I woudl agree as far as premarital sex and other relational sexual offenses are concerned: to try and separate the pleasure of sex from the responsibility is to distort God's plan for sex. However, my previous statement can apply here: what about people who are/will remain single, for whatever reason? God still created them as intimately sexual beings.

Called to chastity as I said above.

The thing is . . . masturbation isn't in a relationship. It's not even having sex with anyone. It would seem at least possible then, that the specific laws governing sexual relations don't necessarily apply to masturbation (hence possibly why masturbation is never mentioned in Scripture).

Rightly so--I agree, as far as fornication goes. Now . . . as I said, masturbation isn't in a relationship. It would seem that relational rules may not apply then.

Of course it isn't a relationship, it isn't sex, its masturbation. Masturbation is self stimulation of the sexual organs to get sexual pleasure, which is a reason for why its a sin. It removes sexual pleasure from its proper context which is in a sexual relationship which should only occur in marriage.

Lusting in your thoughts isn't a relationship either, but its still classified as a sexual sin because it pertains to sins whose aim is to gain illicit sexual pleasure.

Fornication is about gaining illicit sexual pleasure by engaging in the act with another person, Lusting in your thoughts is about gaining illicit sexual pleasure through the mind by conjuring up impure thoughts and fantasies, and Masturbation is about gaining illicit sexual pleasure solely from yourself and for yourself outside of the proper context in marriage. This is how they are all connected, through a distortion of God's plan for us as sexual beings / sexual pleasure.

All true. The question here is this: Are such things of the same type of issue as masturbation? Given the rules which can be applied from scripture to them, and the lack thereof (besides general rules about lust) which can apply to masturbation . . . I find a connection questionable.

I am not equating the sins, I am merely saying that the Bible does not contain a complete list of everything that is wrong and three such things are Human Cloning, Genetic engineering, and Masturbation. None of these is mentioned in scripture and yet all three are sinful. This is my connection. I could have picked any other sin that is not mentioned in scripture and used that as my example, I just happened to pick those other two because they came to mind.

In the end, I feel the best answer is still between the individual and God, purely because Scripture doesn't say anything specific. Anything specific, therefore, is speculation. Some of it may be good, but it would still seem to be speculation. Only the general rules of Scripture governing sexual behavior would seem to apply here.

IMO, I cannot accept this. This opens the door to relativism, let each man decide what is true and right for him regardless of what may be true concerning the objective morality of certain actions. Get a group of 100 devoted Christians and present them with the issue we are discussing, then tell them to earnestly pray about it, and you will still not get anywhere close to a definitive answer even among that small group of people. In my opinion this is one of the major flaws of sola scriptura, but that is an entirely different discussion which should not be discussed here.

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Those who are not able to get married are dealt a tough hand, and are called by God to live a life of Chastity. The same applies for someone who is physically unable to be in such a relationship such as someone who may have become paralyzed from the waist down, they are still a sexual being, but that does not legitimize any outlet for that sexuality that they want. For example they wouldn't be permitted to view pornography as the outlet of their sexuality. Such things are among the toughest crosses someone can be given, but that doesn't change the fact that we are all called to take up our crosses and follow Him no matter how light or heavy.

And if it is someone's choice not to marry, then that is their choice, and they should acknowledge that in choosing not to marry they have also chosen not to utilize the sexual faculties God gave them which are to be exclusively used in the context of a sexual relationship in marriage. The organs are made for sex, they aren't having sex, so they shouldn't be trying to use them to get sexual pleasure which is exclusive to the sexual relationship in marriage.

Called to chastity as I said above.

If sexual pleasure were only limited to marriage, then it seems that God wouldn't have given us sexual drives which stay with us throughout our lives. More than that, do you have a Scriptural command or principle which states that sexuality and pleasure are only limited to marriage?

Of course it isn't a relationship, it isn't sex, its masturbation. Masturbation is self stimulation of the sexual organs to get sexual pleasure, which is a reason for why its a sin. It removes sexual pleasure from its proper context which is in a sexual relationship which should only occur in marriage.
And where is this in Scripture? Why, since it isn't a relationship, do laws about sexual relationships apply? Where does scripture say that sexual pleasure should only occur in marriage (not sexual relationships, for which there is an obvious command)?
Lusting in your thoughts isn't a relationship either, but its still classified as a sexual sin because it pertains to sins whose aim is to gain illicit sexual pleasure.
True, but this begs the question: /Is/ masturbation, in fact, illicit? My point here is that there's no scripture whatsoever on the topic, and therefore no inference from scripture or church teaching is conclusive.
Fornication is about gaining illicit sexual pleasure by engaging in the act with another person, Lusting in your thoughts is about gaining illicit sexual pleasure through the mind by conjuring up impure thoughts and fantasies,
These are true. They aren't necessarily connected to masturbation, though they do often happen along with masturbation. IOW, if you masturbate, you aren't commanded to lust, but you probably often do, simply because of your fallen nature.
and Masturbation is about gaining illicit sexual pleasure solely from yourself and for yourself outside of the proper context in marriage. This is how they are all connected, through a distortion of God's plan for us as sexual beings / sexual pleasure.
Again, begging the question: How is masturbation itself (not lust or fantasy) illicit and a distortion of God's plan for us? IOW . . . what scripture says that sexual pleasure (not a relationship) is limited only to marriage?

I am not equating the sins, I am merely saying that the Bible does not contain a complete list of everything that is wrong and three such things are Human Cloning, Genetic engineering, and Masturbation. None of these is mentioned in scripture and yet all three are sinful. This is my connection. I could have picked any other sin that is not mentioned in scripture and used that as my example, I just happened to pick those other two because they came to mind.
Very well. What Scriptural principle(s) do you use to form your position on masturbation? I'm talking general principles derived from specific scriptures, and/or applications.
IMO, I cannot accept this. This opens the door to relativism, let each man decide what is true and right for him regardless of what may be true concerning the objective morality of certain actions.
Actually, it doesn't. What it says is that man alone cannot decide if masturbation is universally moral or immoral precisely because there is no clear scriptural principle on the subject. Accordingly, man should consult God and determine whether God considers masturbation a sin for them. This refers back to "meat sacrificed to idols", written about by Paul, where he says such things are sins only if the man in question is convinced in his own mind that such things are sinful.

What's more, according this, while Christians have a general liberty, some Chrisitans may not be able to masturbate freely because of their own convictions or past (i.e. ones which incline them to lust or fantasize).

Get a group of 100 devoted Christians and present them with the issue we are discussing, then tell them to earnestly pray about it, and you will still not get anywhere close to a definitive answer even among that small group of people. In my opinion this is one of the major flaws of sola scriptura, but that is an entirely different discussion which should not be discussed here.
When Scripture presents no solid, clear conclusion even after exhaustive study, I'm not looking for a universal agreement or conclusion, necessarily.

----

Incidentally, before you think I'm approaching this from a libertine perspective:

I myself have to be careful. I myself must resist lust, fantasy, and yes, masturbation. Because there is no scriptural conclusion about masturbation, besides general principles about lust and fantasy, I cannot conclude that my situation is authoritative for anyone else. I'm not an authority in myself. The Church is not an authority in itself. Only Scripture, the record of the spoken words of God, provides conclusive moral authority (if interpreted according to the authorial intent).

I could indeed be wrong about my position, but I sincerely doubt it.

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Brothers, we are all well aware that this is a highly debated topic. Just as a precaution from one who has seen bad debates about the Bible happen, keep in mind that we are here to edify each other as brothers who are dealing with things and are desiring to get closer to God. We are not here to have extremely long convos that do not accomplish anything that will extend the Kingdom of God. Just some food for thought.

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Brothers, we are all well aware that this is a highly debated topic. Just as a precaution from one who has seen bad debates about the Bible happen, keep in mind that we are here to edify each other as brothers who are dealing with things and are desiring to get closer to God. We are not here to have extremely long convos that do not accomplish anything that will extend the Kingdom of God. Just some food for thought.

Very true. I'm interested in hearing what Matt (L) has to say though. He has one of the better positions I've seen, and all I'm looking for is some general Scriptural support.

Believe me . . . I'll pray about the topic myself and search Scripture, just to make sure I'm not holding or propagating a wrong position--that's not something I want.

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Very true. I'm interested in hearing what Matt (L) has to say though. He has one of the better positions I've seen, and all I'm looking for is some general Scriptural support.

Believe me . . . I'll pray about the topic myself and search Scripture, just to make sure I'm not holding or propagating a wrong position--that's not something I want.

Brother, I'm very happy to see that you are open to hearing other people's perspectives on this issue. As already established, it is one that is highly debated because of the literal health benefits and as well as the pleasure that comes with it. However, we must be willing to hear each other out and truely discuss things. If we start fussing, yelling, pointing fingers, and etc about issues, then the worldly stereotype of church people will stay the same. However, if this is handled in a biblical way, then the world will see the difference that we have in Christ and desire to have it. I hope that we all can discuss this in a understanding manner without firing "e-bullets" at each other. lol

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If sexual pleasure were only limited to marriage, then it seems that God wouldn't have given us sexual drives which stay with us throughout our lives. More than that, do you have a Scriptural command or principle which states that sexuality and pleasure are only limited to marriage?

God gives us all sorts of appetites and desires. We are given an appetite to eat food when we are hungry, and the abuse of this appetite is gluttony which is sinful. Likewise God gives us a desire for sex, which is part of being human because we are creatures who need to have sex in order to procreate and continue our existence, and the abuses of this appetite are sinful as well. God is in no way responsible for how our sinful natures corrupt and distort these appetites, just as He is not responsible for our choices to sin. (I'll get to your second point later on in this post)

And where is this in Scripture? Why, since it isn't a relationship, do laws about sexual relationships apply? Where does scripture say that sexual pleasure should only occur in marriage (not sexual relationships, for which there is an obvious command)?

Not all sexual sin involves intercourse with another person.

Lust in thoughts is a sexual sin, because its aim to obtain illicit sexual pleasure by means of sexual fantasies and thoughts.

Masturbation is a sexual sin because it’s an abuse of your sexual faculties, totally focused on self/ self pleasure, and distorts God’s plan for our bodies and sexual pleasure.

True, but this begs the question: /Is/ masturbation, in fact, illicit? My point here is that there's no scripture whatsoever on the topic, and therefore no inference from scripture or church teaching is conclusive.

It’s only inconclusive from a scripture alone point of view. If you accept the Church which scripture says is the pillar and support of the Truth, then you would acknowledge the role of the Church to discern the proper stance on the morality of issues such as masturbation as well as other extra biblical issues such as human cloning, and genetic engineering which I have mentioned.

And even if you don’t recognize the authoritative role of the Church, you must acknowledge as a matter of fact that the Bible does not contain all Truth, if it did there would be no questions regarding Truth and morality. And even though it does not contain all Truth, this Truth still exists, and we can never disregard Truth no matter where it happens to pop up because all Truth is of God, so we do have a responsibility to seek out the Truth on matters like these.

These are true. They aren't necessarily connected to masturbation, though they do often happen along with masturbation. IOW, if you masturbate, you aren't commanded to lust, but you probably often do, simply because of your fallen nature.

You are talking about two separate sins here, lustful thoughts and masturbation, masturbation is sinful even apart from lustful thoughts because regardless of the mental pleasure you would get from impure thoughts and fantasies you are still trying to gain sexual pleasure from the physical action of masturbating which is in and of itself sinful because it is an abuse of the sexual organs and of sexual pleasure.

Again, begging the question: How is masturbation itself (not lust or fantasy) illicit and a distortion of God's plan for us? IOW . . . what scripture says that sexual pleasure (not a relationship) is limited only to marriage?

You are presupposing that the Bible contains ALL knowledge necessary for Christian living. It does not, and that is not its intention. The Bible never says it contains all knowledge necessary for a Christian but all that it does contain is profitable for instruction in Truth and righteousness.

Think about it logically. It’s called sexual pleasure. Pleasure which is meant to be experienced in the act of having sex, biologically speaking the pleasure is meant for intercourse, if sex wasn’t pleasurable, people wouldn’t be having it, and if people weren’t having sex the human race would die out. And theologically speaking, sexual pleasure is meant to be experienced as one of the joys of marriage.

Sexual pleasure is meant solely for sex, sex is meant solely for marriage so sexual pleasure is meant solely for marriage.

Very well. What Scriptural principle(s) do you use to form your position on masturbation? I'm talking general principles derived from specific scriptures, and/or applications.

We are de facto told that our sexual faculties are exclusive to the martial act. For example, they aren't meant for sodomy, and they aren't meant for bestiality and these two things not only strip sexuality from its proper context in marriage, (like masturbation does) but they are abominations.

What does God tell us in these commands? He tells us that were not supposed to put “things” where they don’t belong, and we aren’t supposed to use “things” how they aren’t supposed to be used. And we are not to distort his plan for sex and the human body, and our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit.

Actually, it doesn't. What it says is that man alone cannot decide if masturbation is universally moral or immoral precisely because there is no clear scriptural principle on the subject. Accordingly, man should consult God and determine whether God considers masturbation a sin for them. This refers back to "meat sacrificed to idols", written about by Paul, where he says such things are sins only if the man in question is convinced in his own mind that such things are sinful.

This doesn't change the fact that sins at their core are objectively wrong. Our guilt in regards to these actions is subjective, If I don't know that masturbation is sinful and I do it, I personally do not bear the burden of a personal sin, but the action itself is a sin, and once I realize that it is, I am now held accountable if I do it again.

But many people don't think this way. They do create a form of relativism with a Christian mask over it. They think that since it isn't mentioned in scripture, they have the liberty to form their own opinion on the matter, no matter how sincere they might be in forming it, they could still be wrong. And despite their honest efforts to reach a Truthful conclusion, sin is sin, and it is by no means okay for them to persist in sin even though they are ignorant of it. Because truly, if you accept the scriptures alone as the basis to form solid conclusions about morality, then you have no legitimate means to say that intrinsically evil things like human cloning are wrong. It is just your word versus someone else’s, and any attempt to label it as immoral must by necessity venture outside the scriptures because it is never mentioned in any way, shape, or form.

What's more, according this, while Christians have a general liberty, some Chrisitans may not be able to masturbate freely because of their own convictions or past (i.e. ones which incline them to lust or fantasize).

When Scripture presents no solid, clear conclusion even after exhaustive study, I'm not looking for a universal agreement or conclusion, necessarily.

IMO, no Christian is able to masturbate freely because we have no freedom to sin, and masturbation is most definitely a sin, The Bible does not tell us that but we don’t need the Bible to tell us that it is a sin, and we don’t need the Bible to tell us that human cloning is wrong, or that eugenics is wrong. In addition to the scriptures, God gave us an intellect and a Church for our benefit.

Incidentally, before you think I'm approaching this from a libertine perspective:

I myself have to be careful. I myself must resist lust, fantasy, and yes, masturbation. Because there is no scriptural conclusion about masturbation, besides general principles about lust and fantasy, I cannot conclude that my situation is authoritative for anyone else. I'm not an authority in myself. The Church is not an authority in itself. Only Scripture, the record of the spoken words of God, provides conclusive moral authority (if interpreted according to the authorial intent).

I could indeed be wrong about my position, but I sincerely doubt it.

Well Scripture itself never says it is the only authority, but scripture does say that the Church is the pillar and support of the Truth, and all Truth is not contained in scripture, if it were, the Bible would have to be considerably thicker. So where do we turn when scripture is not able to provide a conclusive answer? Do we disregard it as irrelevant? Do we simply turn inward and look to ourselves and our own thoughts? Absolutely not, we search our consciences, but we also look outward to the Church which Christ established for things like this, to guide us through all obstacles until the end of the age. The position I hold is not my personal conclusion, I didn’t reach it on my own; rather, I came to accept it. It is not only the position of the Church that I am a part of, but it is also the conclusion of centuries upon centuries of other Christian thinkers before me, even those I vehemently disagree with on other matters.

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From my experience working with homosexuals who often masturbate several times a day, that behind compulsive masturbation is an emotional problem. It is not the masturbation that is the problem, it is the emotional problem that creates the need to masturbate that one has to deal with.

If you can isolate that and deal with it the need to masturbate disappears.

Most homosexuals are just that because of rejection, so I think that you may find that this is the same issue for a compulsive masterbater.

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