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TeenLeaderTom

Was this a sin?

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I really wish life could be more black and white in regards than what it sometimes ends up being....so the story is that for 3 weeks I had gone without masturbating to the point of ejactulation...I had struggled some but the power of the Holy Spirit prevented me from getting to that point . Through the weeks I had some slight releases when I'd go to the bathroom, just stuff that'd come out during urination, and with the past couple days being with my girlfriend I had natural slight excretions.

I don't consider those sinful...but what happened this morning messed me up.

I was having weird dreams last nite...I was getting chase on a motorcycle, fight bad guys, all that kind of stuff. And then randomly i end up wrestling a half dressed woman. There wasn't any explicit sex that went down....but lots of friction and for some really weird reason the friction was caused by coffee can size of whiskey....lol don't ask I have no idea either. Anyways, I started moving and you can figure out the rest...wet dream.

Now the problem begins in that I felt like I started recognizing it was a dream and that I was kinda coming awake. I fear that I willingly let myself stay in the dream to fulfill my lustful dream which would seem to make it a sin. I know that if I had been fully conscious I would've totally begun praying and avoided that, but I wasn't and so I feel like it was out of my control. But yet it felt like all at the same time that I was somewhat in control cuz I felt like I was realizing it was a dream and that I could've avoided it.

Right after it happened I completely woke up. I was hoping it hadn't actually happened and that the rush i had gotten had just been in the dream, but lo and behold it twas not. So it was an early morning for me, waking up at 5:55...

I'm a leader in my youth group and with the guys in my community...and I just am afraid of being still stuck under this sin, when I felt I didn't really have a say in the matter.

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I really wish life could be more black and white in regards than what it sometimes ends up being....so the story is that for 3 weeks I had gone without masturbating to the point of ejactulation...I had struggled some but the power of the Holy Spirit prevented me from getting to that point . Through the weeks I had some slight releases when I'd go to the bathroom, just stuff that'd come out during urination, and with the past couple days being with my girlfriend I had natural slight excretions.

I don't consider those sinful...but what happened this morning messed me up.

I was having weird dreams last nite...I was getting chase on a motorcycle, fight bad guys, all that kind of stuff. And then randomly i end up wrestling a half dressed woman. There wasn't any explicit sex that went down....but lots of friction and for some really weird reason the friction was caused by coffee can size of whiskey....lol don't ask I have no idea either. Anyways, I started moving and you can figure out the rest...wet dream.

Now the problem begins in that I felt like I started recognizing it was a dream and that I was kinda coming awake. I fear that I willingly let myself stay in the dream to fulfill my lustful dream which would seem to make it a sin. I know that if I had been fully conscious I would've totally begun praying and avoided that, but I wasn't and so I feel like it was out of my control. But yet it felt like all at the same time that I was somewhat in control cuz I felt like I was realizing it was a dream and that I could've avoided it.

Right after it happened I completely woke up. I was hoping it hadn't actually happened and that the rush i had gotten had just been in the dream, but lo and behold it twas not. So it was an early morning for me, waking up at 5:55...

I'm a leader in my youth group and with the guys in my community...and I just am afraid of being still stuck under this sin, when I felt I didn't really have a say in the matter.

The very fact that you aren't sure as to whether or not you consented to and entertained these thoughts/actions seems to make it evident that you did not consciously and willfully enter into them. You cannot sin in your dreams because your body lacks the mental ability to use the intellect to make a conscious decision. You say yourself that had you been fully awake you would have avoided it, so it seems to me based on what you have written that you were merely in an unconcious/semi-unconcious haze and did not know what you were doing and that led to certain thoughts being in your head, but without your clear consent. You are either making a conscious decision to sin or you aren't, sometimes you can technically be awake as in not sleeping but still be completely out of your mind in that you don't know what you are doing. That has happened to me before, where I have been told I responded to questions being asked of me as I slept, but I have like no memory of even responding or being asked any thing.

2centsworth

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I really wish life could be more black and white in regards than what it sometimes ends up being....so the story is that for 3 weeks I had gone without masturbating to the point of ejactulation...I had struggled some but the power of the Holy Spirit prevented me from getting to that point . Through the weeks I had some slight releases when I'd go to the bathroom, just stuff that'd come out during urination, and with the past couple days being with my girlfriend I had natural slight excretions.

I don't consider those sinful...but what happened this morning messed me up.

I was having weird dreams last nite...I was getting chase on a motorcycle, fight bad guys, all that kind of stuff. And then randomly i end up wrestling a half dressed woman. There wasn't any explicit sex that went down....but lots of friction and for some really weird reason the friction was caused by coffee can size of whiskey....lol don't ask I have no idea either. Anyways, I started moving and you can figure out the rest...wet dream.

Now the problem begins in that I felt like I started recognizing it was a dream and that I was kinda coming awake. I fear that I willingly let myself stay in the dream to fulfill my lustful dream which would seem to make it a sin. I know that if I had been fully conscious I would've totally begun praying and avoided that, but I wasn't and so I feel like it was out of my control. But yet it felt like all at the same time that I was somewhat in control cuz I felt like I was realizing it was a dream and that I could've avoided it.

Right after it happened I completely woke up. I was hoping it hadn't actually happened and that the rush i had gotten had just been in the dream, but lo and behold it twas not. So it was an early morning for me, waking up at 5:55...

I'm a leader in my youth group and with the guys in my community...and I just am afraid of being still stuck under this sin, when I felt I didn't really have a say in the matter.

Dude, you’re fine. A wet dream, even in a half awake state, is nothing to be ashamed of. It is just part of how our bodies work. Every 3-4 days, your body needs some kind of sexual release. Most of the time this is accomplished through masturbation, but since you weren’t masturbating, your body just went into auto-pilot and took care of that for you. Once you mature sexually, your body is constantly producing sperm and seminal fluid. It has to go somewhere, so it’s either going to come out during urination, during sexual arousal, or in your sleep.

What exactly is motivating you to quit masturbating in the first place? Like I said, those fluids gotta go somewhere, so you are better off doing that under your own will, rather than waiting for you body to take out the trash on its own. All you’ll end up with is a bunch of stained sheets and ruined boxer shorts. Ejaculation is a normal bodily function, just like farting or burping. If you hold a burp in, your gonna get a stomach cramp. If you hold a fart in, it’s gonna slip out eventually. If you don’t masturbate on your own, your body’s gonna dump out your fluids involuntarily (and probably in a very inopportune time/place. There’s nothing wrong with the actual physical function of ejaculation, it’s what is going on in your heart/mind that matters. Focus on keeping that end of things in order, rather than trying to “hold in your farts”.

GOD Bless,

Shel-Yudah

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I personally think it's nothing to obsess about. Don't get me wrong--of course it's important to stay pure! But if you get to hung up wondering if you did something wrong, you're just going to be chasing your tail. You're never going to be 100% pure until you get to heaven--that's how it is. The important thing is that you do your best to keep your eyes on God, remembering that only He can save you from your sins. You can't save yourself. I don't believe that God wants us to feel guilty. He just wants us to love and follow Him as we attempt to finish the race of life. If you stumble, gratefully receive His forgiveness, try to learn from your mistake, and then keep running.

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You're never going to be 100% pure until you get to heaven--that's how it is.

I think you will find that the Bible does not agree with you saaron. It says that Jesus is coming for a bride without spot or wrinkle. In other words...perfect.

---------- Post added at 11:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 AM ----------

Perhaps you could clear something up for me Tom. In another thread I said to you that you should consider resigning as a teen leader and your reply was that you were not a teen leader but now you are saying you are so which one is the truth?

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I really wish life could be more black and white in regards than what it sometimes ends up being....so the story is that for 3 weeks I had gone without masturbating to the point of ejactulation...I had struggled some but the power of the Holy Spirit prevented me from getting to that point . Through the weeks I had some slight releases when I'd go to the bathroom, just stuff that'd come out during urination, and with the past couple days being with my girlfriend I had natural slight excretions.

I don't consider those sinful...but what happened this morning messed me up.

I was having weird dreams last nite...I was getting chase on a motorcycle, fight bad guys, all that kind of stuff. And then randomly i end up wrestling a half dressed woman. There wasn't any explicit sex that went down....but lots of friction and for some really weird reason the friction was caused by coffee can size of whiskey....lol don't ask I have no idea either. Anyways, I started moving and you can figure out the rest...wet dream.

Now the problem begins in that I felt like I started recognizing it was a dream and that I was kinda coming awake. I fear that I willingly let myself stay in the dream to fulfill my lustful dream which would seem to make it a sin. I know that if I had been fully conscious I would've totally begun praying and avoided that, but I wasn't and so I feel like it was out of my control. But yet it felt like all at the same time that I was somewhat in control cuz I felt like I was realizing it was a dream and that I could've avoided it.

Right after it happened I completely woke up. I was hoping it hadn't actually happened and that the rush i had gotten had just been in the dream, but lo and behold it twas not. So it was an early morning for me, waking up at 5:55...

I'm a leader in my youth group and with the guys in my community...and I just am afraid of being still stuck under this sin, when I felt I didn't really have a say in the matter.

Honestly, I don't think the answer matters that much, whether or not it was a sin. I think it just demonstrates the true extent of our depravity and how we will always choose sin without the help of God.

Don't be concerned with tallying the number of sins you have committed. Just remember that you will always stay a sinner, it doesn't matter how much you improve. The best thing to do is to move on, and don't worry about it. It sounds like you are doing a good job keeping yourself in check, just keep it up! Sanctification doesn't stop til your dead ;)

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I think you will find that the Bible does not agree with you saaron. It says that Jesus is coming for a bride without spot or wrinkle. In other words...perfect.

---------- Post added at 11:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 AM ----------

Perhaps you could clear something up for me Tom. In another thread I said to you that you should consider resigning as a teen leader and your reply was that you were not a teen leader but now you are saying you are so which one is the truth?

You don't give somebody free will and expect perfection, plain and simple. There is simply no possibility anybody in the entire world is anything near perfect, like Dali said, "Have no fear of perfection, you’ll never reach it." Masturbation doesn't make you imperfect, you're not going to get into Heaven or not into Heaven based on if you masturbated or not. Its the totality of your lifestyle that is taken into consideration.

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Tom, my question to you is how do you define sin. If your definition of sin is doing something that does not please God, then your actions could be perceived as such.

Jesus said the entire law can be summed up in loving God above all else, and loving your neighbor as yourself. Paul, speaking about Ministry, says that without love, all other activities in ministry are worthless.

A better definition of sin is this: acting in a manor that does not show love in the correct position love should be placed. Were you loving God above all else, then placing others above yourself as well? If not, then a true believer would want to seek forgiveness.

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You don't give somebody free will and expect perfection, plain and simple. There is simply no possibility anybody in the entire world is anything near perfect, like Dali said, "Have no fear of perfection, you’ll never reach it." Masturbation doesn't make you imperfect, you're not going to get into Heaven or not into Heaven based on if you masturbated or not.

I agree, we can't be perfect as humans because of the fall of man back in Genesis. We can strive to be pure and not sin, but inevitably we will fail.

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You don't give somebody free will and expect perfection, plain and simple. There is simply no possibility anybody in the entire world is anything near perfect, like Dali said, "Have no fear of perfection, you’ll never reach it." Masturbation doesn't make you imperfect, you're not going to get into Heaven or not into Heaven based on if you masturbated or not. Its the totality of your lifestyle that is taken into consideration.

How do you know? You are not a christian so you cannot discern the things of the spirit according to scripture.

---------- Post added at 10:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 PM ----------

A better definition of sin is this: acting in a manor that does not show love in the correct position love should be placed. Were you loving God above all else, then placing others above yourself as well? If not, then a true believer would want to seek forgiveness.

I see you are trying to reinterpret scripture in your own image again Mark.

I have just searched the New Testament and the word "sin" appears in 59 verses. About 90% of the time, the word means an offence and the other 10% means miss the mark. The word love does not appear in any reference.

What you might say, you have missed the "mark" again.

---------- Post added at 10:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 PM ----------

I agree, we can't be perfect as humans because of the fall of man back in Genesis. We can strive to be pure and not sin, but inevitably we will fail.

Ephesians 5:27: That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Spot means stain or soil.

Holy means blameless and faultless.

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How do you know? You are not a christian so you cannot discern the things of the spirit according to scripture.

---------- Post added at 10:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 PM ----------

I see you are trying to reinterpret scripture in your own image again Mark.

I have just searched the New Testament and the word "sin" appears in 59 verses. About 90% of the time, the word means an offence and the other 10% means miss the mark. The word love does not appear in any reference.

What you might say, you have missed the "mark" again.

---------- Post added at 10:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 PM ----------

Ephesians 5:27: That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Spot means stain or soil.

Holy means blameless and faultless.

I do not re-interpret scripture, I take scripture in light of itself and in light of history and culture. Forgive me for taking what Christ said literally. "He said to him, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and most important commandment. The second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commandments." Matthew 22:37-40 HCSB

" For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."But if instead of showing love among yourselves you are always biting and devouring one another, watch out! Beware of destroying one another. " Galatians 5: 14-15 HCSB

It seems as though Christ and Paul say that love is the hanging point of how we are to conduct ourselves.

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Tom, Hi.

My name is Kevin.

I've been converted for about almost 2 years.

I relate to your problem.

See, did you know demons can play mind games on you?

Did you know they have names? Incubus and Succubus are their names. Demons that attack when you are asleep. Sex demons.

Did you know you have the power to rebuke? Of course you do. You are a child of God.

Now, I see you are masturbating. Now, the bible warns us to flee from our pleasures of our youth.

Masturbating is clearly a carnal desire. You do it because it makes you feel good.

You see, you can't honor God with your body if you are masturbating. God wants us to present ourselves holy

in spirit, body and soul. We have to honor God with our bodies, no piercing, no tattoos, no masturbating etc.

It's very clear that masturbating is causing you a big problem.

I urge you to stop masturbating once and for all because you are giving the enemy an open door to attack you, Tom.

I've had the problem of masturbation before I accepted Christ into my life.

Even though I was not converted, I was struggling because I felt guilty of what I was doing.

I knew and still know that there is NO HONOR in masturbating. Let you sexual intimacy be with your spouse and not yourself.

Even though I have not masturbated since I have converted to Christ, I still had attacks in my sleep, can you believe that?

I remember not long ago I sincerely asked Jesus to take that away from me because I did not want to sin in my mind anymore.

I didn't want it in my life anymore. Sometimes you are dreaming and you see some things that you didn't try to see (that's the enemy attacking you when you didn't realize it).

So since you are sleeping and the enemy can attack your mind in your sleep, you have these erotic dreams that you seem to think it's normal, but then when you realize it you are being seduced and fooled by a demon in your own mind. This is true deception.

How can you just avoid having these dreams in the first place?

Abide in Christ. Follow His commandments and you will receive what you ask in Jesus name.

Read John chapter 15.

God bless you.

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Tom, Hi.

My name is Kevin.

I've been converted for about almost 2 years.

I relate to your problem.

See, did you know demons can play mind games on you?

Did you know they have names? Incubus and Succubus are their names. Demons that attack when you are asleep. Sex demons.

Did you know you have the power to rebuke? Of course you do. You are a child of God.

Now, I see you are masturbating. Now, the bible warns us to flee from our pleasures of our youth.

Masturbating is clearly a carnal desire. You do it because it makes you feel good.

You see, you can't honor God with your body if you are masturbating. God wants us to present ourselves holy

in spirit, body and soul. We have to honor God with our bodies, no piercing, no tattoos, no masturbating etc.

It's very clear that masturbating is causing you a big problem.

I urge you to stop masturbating once and for all because you are giving the enemy an open door to attack you, Tom.

I've had the problem of masturbation before I accepted Christ into my life.

Even though I was not converted, I was struggling because I felt guilty of what I was doing.

I knew and still know that there is NO HONOR in masturbating. Let you sexual intimacy be with your spouse and not yourself.

Even though I have not masturbated since I have converted to Christ, I still had attacks in my sleep, can you believe that?

I remember not long ago I sincerely asked Jesus to take that away from me because I did not want to sin in my mind anymore.

I didn't want it in my life anymore. Sometimes you are dreaming and you see some things that you didn't try to see (that's the enemy attacking you when you didn't realize it).

So since you are sleeping and the enemy can attack your mind in your sleep, you have these erotic dreams that you seem to think it's normal, but then when you realize it you are being seduced and fooled by a demon in your own mind. This is true deception.

How can you just avoid having these dreams in the first place?

Abide in Christ. Follow His commandments and you will receive what you ask in Jesus name.

Read John chapter 15.

God bless you.

I'm sorry, but you have some misguided theology in your post. Sex Demons? Really? Sometimes we give the demonic too much credit for our on lack of self control. Not every sinful desire is caused by a demon. The woman caught in adultery, she didn't have a demon cast out of her. Christ said "sin no more."

Demons causing dreams, highly unlikely. Demonic influence is not over dreams its over poor decisions. And a believer can never be possessed by the demonic.

I have been involved in the Deliverance Ministry, and this is not the sort of thing that demonic possession/oppression/ or influence deals with.

Above All, Draw Near to God and He will Draw near to you. You have to be the first one to move.

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I know what I'm talking about Mark. I've been through this myself. I've had the same problems Tom is having right now.

I'm not going to start debating just because you think this is not of Satan.

God bless you.

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I know what I'm talking about Mark. I've been through this myself. I've had the same problems Tom is having right now.

I'm not going to start debating just because you think this is not of Satan.

God bless you.

I'm confused with what you were saved from ... masturbation?

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I know what I'm talking about Mark. I've been through this myself. I've had the same problems Tom is having right now.

I'm not going to start debating just because you think this is not of Satan.

God bless you.

The Bible has shown that we have three enemies. Self (flesh), the world, and Satan. To me, since Satan has more to do than see if a teen aged boy is playing with himself, this sounds more like a struggle of the flesh. Paul put it this way, I do what I don't want to do, and do not do what I want to do.

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Guest JAG

This is the strangest thread.

Look here, don't get caught in legalism. God doesn't take notes down about how many times you've sinned or how many times you've done good, and then decides whether to offer salvation based on that. If He did, no one would be saved. We are saved by grace, and from that grace comes good works and the ability to fight sin. We will never be sinless until we get to heaven.

That is the second heresy that is being preached in this thread. It is called pelagianism - the belief that Christians can obtain sinless perfection. You will never be perfect until God has completed His work in you. The spotless bride that is being talked about is one whom Christ sanctifies through the atonement of His death. That's His death, not your works. Christ presents the church - He cleans the church.

Now, for a bit of encouragement to the OP:

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

- 1 John 1:8

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

- 1 John 2

- James

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I'm confused with what you were saved from ... masturbation?

My OP says it all. It has to do with erotic dreams. They come from attacks of the enemy.

---------- Post added at 06:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:44 AM ----------

The Bible has shown that we have three enemies. Self (flesh), the world, and Satan. To me, since Satan has more to do than see if a teen aged boy is playing with himself, this sounds more like a struggle of the flesh. Paul put it this way, I do what I don't want to do, and do not do what I want to do.

He's struggling with his flesh with masturbation and probably lust, but he also suffers attacks to his mind while he is asleep, explaining the fact that he gets in random dreams where sometimes he doesn't control them and ends up in erotic situations in his sleep. This sounds to me like an attack of the enemy.

I've been through this and I've been liberated.

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My OP says it all. It has to do with erotic dreams. They come from attacks of the enemy.

---------- Post added at 06:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:44 AM ----------

He's struggling with his flesh with masturbation and probably lust, but he also suffers attacks to his mind while he is asleep, explaining the fact that he gets in random dreams where sometimes he doesn't control them and ends up in erotic situations in his sleep. This sounds to me like an attack of the enemy.

I've been through this and I've been liberated.

Psychology would disagree with you.

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This is the strangest thread.

Look here, don't get caught in legalism. God doesn't take notes down about how many times you've sinned or how many times you've done good, and then decides whether to offer salvation based on that. If He did, no one would be saved. We are saved by grace, and from that grace comes good works and the ability to fight sin. We will never be sinless until we get to heaven.

That is the second heresy that is being preached in this thread. It is called pelagianism - the belief that Christians can obtain sinless perfection. You will never be perfect until God has completed His work in you. The spotless bride that is being talked about is one whom Christ sanctifies through the atonement of His death. That's His death, not your works. Christ presents the church - He cleans the church.

Now, for a bit of encouragement to the OP:

This is a strange thread, I never knew masturbation was a sin. Or that wet dreams were either.

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Sometimes the so called science goes against the spiritual world.

We can't see these things. I rather believe the word of God than believe what MAN has to say about their years of study.

It's so clear that this is an attack of the enemy. If you read your bible you will learn that the enemy can attack your mind. The enemy can attack anytime he wants as long as it's permitted by God INCLUDING in sleep. God wants us to take up the shield of faith to go against the attacks of the enemy.

If you start a survey of long term christians about the attacks of the enemy, I believe you will get a high result of attacks in the mind.

Why do you think some christians say, "My goodness, I can't believe I was thinking that!" while they were in prayer.

This is so evident. You could ask so many christians and they will end up saying the same thing. The most attacks they've received in their life was in their mind.

The mind is where the enemy tries to send confusion, lies, doubt, selfishness, uncertainty, fear, lust, greed, etc.

It is just so clear!

The enemy is attacking him in his sleep don't you understand? We need to pray for him and ask God that it be His will that He gets liberated from that in Jesus' name.

The problem is if he doesn't stop masturbating, I'm afraid he is practically opening a door for the enemy to strike him in his sleep.

If you don't understand yet, let me explain.

The brain is powerful, yes, we all know that but we don't use it to it's max potential.

Thanks to your brain and nerves, you can feel because they are connected.

Your nerves send the message to your brain wether or not what you touch feels good.

Your brain also has the capability to store memories.

Your brain is mostly active when you are asleep.

The brain is so powerful that sometimes dreams seem to feel like real life.

Now, let's speak spiritual.

It's a fact that the enemy can attack your mind with negative thoughts, regardless if you are awake or asleep.

Sometimes when we are dreaming, the enemy can attack us in our sleep.

The enemy can put an erotic dream in your mind without your will.

The enemy can use your mind to start activating your senses. Remember that you can feel thanks to your nerves and that your brain is connected to your nerves, sending signals constantly.

So when the enemy takes control of your mind when you are asleep, then the senses start to kick in, and let's say the dream is a dream about having sex.

The enemy can use your senses to make you feel pleasure in your sleep. (I'm sure everyone has gone through this).

Since you are in this dream having sex with someone, you literally feel the pleasure on your body, which is strange because in real life, you are just laying in bed.

What can this mean? Oh it's just a dream that my brain let me have by chance. WRONG!

This is not just a dream, this is an attack of a demon. They are sex demons. They are demons dedicated to put erotic dreams in your sleep.

Note that I'm not saying that a person becomes possessed by this, I'm saying that the demons attack the mind using this tactic.

How many people in this forum do you think have had erotic dreams either unwillingly or willingly with the devilish "lucid dreaming"?

How many people do you think keep their mouths shut about their erotic dreams because they wake up feeling bad or feeling guilty for something they felt they ALMOST had no control over?

Note that I said ALMOST because they get to a point in their dream that they realize it's a dream and that they can take over but decide to go along with the sexual dream anyways. Then they wake up from a "wet dream".

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority said they have gone through this.

How many people here say they are christians and they masturbate just like they masturbated before being christian?

How many people here say they watch "CHRISTIAN PORN" saying it's ok?

If you just look at things with your spiritual eyes, you will see why people have these dreams.

It's not a surprise that someone who is into filthy sexual pleasures suffers from erotic dreams.

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