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Obama: Worst President Ever?

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I'm pretty sure America is the ONLY place to live in America.

DMac

lol, I think the person you quoted was making a Yu-Gi-OH the Abridged series joke. :P

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Its debatable whether his is the worst or best or somewhere in between president. In my opinion, generally an incumbent, someone who is already in office, always wins the reelection, unless they have an extremely low approval rating. Im sure there is a time when an incumbent didn't win the reelection, Im just trying to think of an example. :glare:

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Its debatable whether his is the worst or best or somewhere in between president. In my opinion, generally an incumbent, someone who is already in office, always wins the reelection, unless they have an extremely low approval rating. Im sure there is a time when an incumbent didn't win the reelection, Im just trying to think of an example. :glare:

Here's a list of presidents who were not reelected when they were incumbents.

Georgia H. W. Bush

Jimmy Carter

Gerald Ford

Herbert Hoover

William Howard Taft

Benjamin Harrison

Grover Cleveland

Martin Van Buren

John Quincy Adams

And last but not least, John Adams.

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the president is pretty much just a figure head puppet that congress controls
If you would have said the President is a puppet of the power elite in the country, you would have made a decent Marxist argument.

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Obama gave the order to assassinate a US citizen, supports the patriot act, supports the protect ip act, probably going to sign NDAA into law, Obamacare, supported the bailouts, tried to extend our stay in Iraq, doesn't understand deficits, and supports drug prohibition. I don't know if he's the worst, but he's certainly close to it.

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Obama gave the order to assassinate a US citizen, supports the patriot act, supports the protect ip act, probably going to sign NDAA into law, Obamacare, supported the bailouts, tried to extend our stay in Iraq, doesn't understand deficits, and supports drug prohibition. I don't know if he's the worst, but he's certainly close to it.

Those are the only real problems, but Obamacare and the bailouts were intended to help out, so I can't really call him out on them just because they didn't work out. Honestly, of course he's way too conservative for the 21st century, but he's not much of a downgrade from other extreme-right authoritative types like Bush.

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Those are the only real problems, but Obamacare and the bailouts were intended to help out, so I can't really call him out on them just because they didn't work out. Honestly, of course he's way too conservative for the 21st century, but he's not much of a downgrade from other extreme-right authoritative types like Bush.

No, those are just the problems I could think of off the top of my head. And it doesn't matter if he had good intentions. As they say, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." And he's not conservative at all. He's way liberal. Conservative doesn't mean authoritarian.

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Conservative doesn't mean authoritarian.

Sure it does. It just implies that the authoritarian power is used to maintain old values, like royalism in Europe or traditional marriage in the US.

That said, the political spectrum that places Obama on the far right clearly has totalitarian socialism as its center.

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Sure it does. It just implies that the authoritarian power is used to maintain old values, like royalism in Europe or traditional marriage in the US.

That said, the political spectrum that places Obama on the far right clearly has totalitarian socialism as its center.

Conservatism in America means to retain old values like limited government, and constitutional authority.

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I like how you defined conservatism to suggest that liberal policies are unconstitutional.

And if conservatism means an adherence to old values, isn't Obama the conservative candidate for president? After all, he stands for the modestly redistributive and regulatory government that's been in place for almost 80 years now, compared to the rather radical new shift in Republican attitude on the role of government.

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I like how you defined conservatism to suggest that liberal policies are unconstitutional.

And if conservatism means an adherence to old values, isn't Obama the conservative candidate for president? After all, he stands for the modestly redistributive and regulatory government that's been in place for almost 80 years now, compared to the rather radical new shift in Republican attitude on the role of government.

80 years is one lifetime. That's not old.

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80 years is one lifetime. That's not old.

Can you elaborate on exactly why you are justified in ignoring all that precedence in jurisprudence and government policy?

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Can you elaborate on exactly why you are justified in ignoring all that precedence in jurisprudence and government policy?

The only precedents I would ignore are the unconstitutional ones, in which the justification is self-evident.

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The only precedents I would ignore are the unconstitutional ones, in which the justification is self-evident.

My point in asking that was to determine how you determine what are "old values". Why exactly is it that 80 years isn't old? Could you offer an exact age after which point you would consider something "old", and justify it?

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You know the more I think about history, the less of an idea I have of what old values most Conservatives support. Is it Segregation? That's a old value that they believed only 50 years ago. Is it Manifest Destiny of Canada and Mexico? That was a belief from the 19th century. Is it the melting pot idea of immigration that caused my grandparents/parents to completely loose their native language and traditions that I now wish I had? Is it going back to a system that keeps whites and other people privileged and the norm while minorities suffer and are excluded? Is it Christian values which completely ignores the separation of church and state? What exactly are these old values and roots that conservationists claim to support?

I understand wanting to adhere to the Constitution and I understand wanting the federal government out of our hair, but that's what always makes libertarianism way more appealing than conservatism. Conservatism is far to wrapped up with the Religious Right to do much good.

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My point in asking that was to determine how you determine what are "old values". Why exactly is it that 80 years isn't old? Could you offer an exact age after which point you would consider something "old", and justify it?

Simple. Old values are values that have been around since the conception of the US, which is where limited gov't and constitutional authority come in. Choosing any other point in time is completely arbitrary.

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The conception of the US has nothing to do with constitutional authority. The US was around for quite a few years before anyone got around to writing the constitution.

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The conception of the US has nothing to do with constitutional authority. The US was around for quite a few years before anyone got around to writing the constitution.

Yes it does. It has to do with rule of law. Rule of law = constitutional authority.

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Obamacare, supported the bailouts... doesn't understand deficits
What you mean to say is that Obama does not understand deficits from your economic ideology. I am very mad at him for even worrying about deficits, when he should be increasing spending to correct for a lack of demand. From a Keynesian paradigm, the deficit is a non-issue at this point in time.
Simple. Old values are values that have been around since the conception of the US, which is where limited gov't and constitutional authority come in. Choosing any other point in time is completely arbitrary.
So conservatism supports slavery. Got it. Good to know where you stand.

---------- Post added at 06:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:31 AM ----------

Yes it does. It has to do with rule of law. Rule of law = constitutional authority.
Yet, the interpretation of the Constitution is a subjective act, so your point is moot.

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What you mean to say is that Obama does not understand deficits from your economic ideology. I am very mad at him for even worrying about deficits, when he should be increasing spending to correct for a lack of demand. From a Keynesian paradigm, the deficit is a non-issue at this point in time.

Keynesian economists couldn't even predict the housing bubble, the thing that has been impacting our economy the most for the past 5 years. Keynesian economics fails.

So conservatism supports slavery. Got it. Good to know where you stand.

The bill of rights has no room for slavery.

Yet, the interpretation of the Constitution is a subjective act, so your point is moot.

There's no way to interpret the constitution to allow an authoritarian government (remember what we were talking about?) Just because there's a law passed by people who are self proclaimed conservatives that clearly violate the constitution (patriot act) doesn't mean that's a conservative position.

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Sorry to interject, but...

Keynesian economists couldn't even predict the housing bubble, the thing that has been impacting our economy the most for the past 5 years. Keynesian economics fails.

Keynesian economics weren't what led to the housing bubble...

The bill of rights doesn't has no room for slavery.

Conservatives aren't the only ones who believe in the Bill of Rights, and it certainly doesn't have anything explicitly against slavery.

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Sorry to interject, but...

Keynesian economics weren't what led to the housing bubble...

I didn't say they were. I said Keynesian economists couldn't predict it. My point was that they are not the most credible economists since they couldn't predict what would happen in the economy, while others could.

Conservatives aren't the only ones who believe in the Bill of Rights,

Just because others embrace it as well does not mean it's disconnected from conservatism.

and it certainly doesn't have anything explicitly against slavery.

Amendment 4. Can slavery exist without unreasonable searches and seizers of one's person or effects?

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I didn't say they were. I said Keynesian economists couldn't predict it. My point was that they are not the most credible economists since they couldn't predict what would happen in the economy, while others could.

Why would Keynesian economists predict an outcome from another economic policy? Keynesian economists are experts in Keynesian economics, not every other economic policy that leads to collapse.

Just because others embrace it as well does not mean it's disconnected from conservatism.

The only thing conservative about it is that it's old. They are in fact very liberal.

Amendment 4. Can slavery exist without unreasonable searches and seizers of one's person or effects?

If it's a private enterprise and the government isn't making unreasonable searches and seizures, then yes. The Fourth Amendment regulates government actions.

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