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Catholics - Infallibility of the Pope

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The "keys" refers to the power to "bind and loose." That is, to claim doctrine is sound (loose) or not (bind). This was given to all the disciples as I demonstrated. I'm sorry, but there are no physical keys to heaven. In context, it is very clearly saying that Christ gave Peter the right to bind and loose - which was extended to all the disciples (the church).

Try reading it in context:

"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

- James

I never said there were physical keys in Heaven.

look the larger context:

16Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood* has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,* and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.* Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Peter is being singled out; he is the rock on which Jesus says He going to build the Church; every claim that Jesus makes is directed at him. but furthermore, Jesus extends this power of binding and loosing to the rest of the Apostles inasmuch as they are in communion with one another united with Christ. The issue isn't an either or; it isn't Peter alone, or the Apostles together, it is the Apostles, with Peter given a certain distention among them. In Luke 22, Jesus says that Satan has asked to sift all of the apostles (plural you) like wheat, but then Jesus uses a singular you to address Peter. It is Peter who Jesus singles out and prays for to strengthen the other Apostles after the Crucifixion (luke 22), it is Peter who Jesus singles out to feed His lambs and tend His sheep (Jn 21), it is Peter who Jesus gives the name Rock (Mt 16:18)

But it is not an either or proposition, it is both and. Authority to bind and loose is given to the Apostles including Peter, but Peter is singled out among them as Prime. As I said before, The Bishops who are the successors of the Apostles still maintain such authority today when exercised in communion with one another including the Pope, but they also have authority over their own jurisdictions, so the binding and loosing element is still present, but this does not nullify Peter's unique status among the Apostles and by extension Peter's successor among the other Apostles' successors.

And binding and loosing does not simply mean to claim a doctrine is sound or not, binding and loosing means they have the actually authority to make rules and remit rules, this is the historical Jewish understanding of the concept as it was practiced by Jews. And so, the power to bind and loose does not extend to every believer; that would be chaos. If everyone has the authority to bind and loose, then no one has the authority, because authority comes with the expectation that it must be followed. What expectation is there then for obedience if everyone has the power to bind and loose and as a result have no need to submit to an authority? What keeps you under your own pastors authority? What if you Pastor is saying thing you don't agree with? what if he is teaching things that you believe are false and he believes are true? Do you still consider yourself under his authority? or do you look for a new pastor?

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In addition, the Pope is only "infallible" when he does a certain number of steps such proclaiming what he is going to say to be infallible and a few other things that I'm not sure of (I'm not Catholic either); from what I remember, not many popes actually exercised this authority frequently after Pope Innocent whatevernumberhewas.

Also, while us Protestants believe Purgatory is fabricated (though not necessarily by the Pope), Catholics don't believe so. From what I have seen (and forgive me if I'm wrong, Catholics) they find it in the apocrypha and provide (marginal) support for it in non-Apocryphal books as well, but their main source of authority is the early church leaders, who they believe to be close to the source of Christianity and therefore the most accurate interpretation thereof.

Yes, Catholicism pulls its support for Pugatory from the Apocrypha. At least that's what my Lit of the Old Testament teacher told me.

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First off, this is an honest question, I don't mean to cause offence to any catholics.

I was just wondering why the Pope has so much authority over catholicism. Like, being allowed to add to scripture, ideas such as purgatory.

The bible says "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to these words, God will add to that person the disasters written about in this book" Revelation 22:18

Once again, I'm not condemming anyone's beliefs I just was wondering what sets the Pope apart and gives him that authority?

Pope is not that 'holy'. He's JUST a man yet he's allowing people to bow to him, call him 'holy', he forgives sins in place of Jesus, he adds to scripture. He's just wrong.

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Pope is not that 'holy'. He's JUST a man yet he's allowing people to bow to him, call him 'holy', he forgives sins in place of Jesus, he adds to scripture. He's just wrong.

I think the can of worms has already been opened so I just wanted to ask why does a Catholic think its so astonishing if you do not follow a regular everyday man that is no more special than the next as he is prone to sin as anyone else is and most Catholics say it so casually oh we just follow what ever he does and says just because.... And protestants are submissive?

You can quote something and intemperate it with a little fabrication but please clarify the reason for these circumstances listed below:..

*Catholic Tradition:

Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

*Catholic Tradition : Mary is the queen of heaven.

Worshiping the queen of heaven (which is not the Mary of the Bible) is worshiping another god and it provokes the Lord to anger.

Jeremiah

7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?

*Catholic Tradition: Mary is the mother of God.

Mary is the mother of the earthly Jesus, not God. Jesus pre- existed from everlasting as God (see John 1:1). When He came to redeem mankind, He laid aside His glory and was made like unto sinful man so that He could take our punishment (Hebrew 2:9). God has no mother. He has lived from everlasting which means He had no beginning.

Isaiah

43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. [if Mary gave birth to God, she'd be God.] Psalm

7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

*Catholic Tradition: Pope called Holy Father.

The term Holy Father is only found one time in the entire Bible. It was when Jesus prayed before He and His disciples went to the garden of Gethsemane. He referred to God the Father as Holy Father. It is blasphemy to call a man by God's name

John17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

*Catholic Tradition: Purgatory, nuns, popes.

None of these is mentioned in the Bible. It is a sin to add to the Bible.

Proverbs

30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. The pope is a man who takes upon himself honor which belongs to no human being. Even the very name by which he allows himself to be called (Holy Father) is highly presumptuous and blasphemous .

One does not need the pope to determine what God's will is. The Bible says that God has given the Holy Ghost to each believer and that He (the Holy Ghost) guides and leads us into all truth. All a believer needs is the Bible and the Holy Ghost to know the will of the Lord. Popery has been treacherous, but worse, each pope has been the blind leading the blind. Jesus said that both will fall into the ditch. Catholics, come out of this system that cannot save and know Jesus for youself, intimate and up-close.

NOTE: Purgatory is supposedly a place where a person is purified of sins--even popes supposedly go there. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the one that purifies us of our sins. Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.... When a person dies their eternal home is sealed--heaven or hell--no in between. Hebrews 9:27 ...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.

*Catholic Tradition: The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them. He is supposed to be sacrificed over and over again on Roman Catholic altars.

Jesus died once for sins, never to be repeated. He sits on the right hand of God and does not reappear in the mass as a mass of blood and flesh.

Hebrews

10:12 But this man [Jesus], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. John

19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

1 Corinthians

11:24 And when he [Jesus] had given thanks, he brake it [bread], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come (not for the forgiveness of sins or to receive Jesus).

*Catholic Tradition: Saved, in part, by good works.

Good works are the fruits that grow out of being saved. They do not make you saved. An apple does not make its tree an apple tree, it was already an apple tree before any apples appeared. When you see the apples; however, you know what kind of tree it is. If a person is saved, he will shew forth good works because he has the spirit of Christ in him. The good works don't make him saved only the blood of Jesus can do that.

I John

1:7b ...
the blood
of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. Acts 16:31b

...
believe
on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

Romans

3:24 Being
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus
:

3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a
propitiation through faith in his blood
, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

3:27
Where is boasting then?
It is excluded. By what law?
of works? Nay: but by the law of faith
.

3:28 Therefore
we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds
of the law.

What about James 2:20 "faith without works is dead"?

The kind of faith that saves is a faith that shows forth the works of God. Even devils believe in Jesus and tremble (James 2:19). Many people believe in Jesus but they won't follow Him. They have a faith, but not the kind that saves. If a person has true faith in Jesus, the Holy Ghost dwells in him and will cause good works will show forth in his life. The good works confirm the faith by which the person was saved. James 2:21-23 uses Abraham as an example. Abraham believed God so when God asked him to sacrifice his son Isaac, Abraham, out of his faith in God, offered up Isaac.

*Catholic Tradition: The church is founded on Peter.

Jesus Christ is the foundation of the church. Peter was a man like you and me. Jesus called Peter Satan in Matthew 16:23 when Peter rebuked Jesus dying. When Cornelius tried to worship Peter, Peter responded, "Stand up; I myself also am a man." (Acts 10:26). The pope needs to remember Acts 10:26 when he has men bowing to him and kissing his hand like he is worthy of worship.

1 Corinthians

3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Matthew

21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected [Jesus], the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes?

*Catholic Tradition: Confessing sins to a priest. Petitioning saints and Mary.

We are to confess our sins and needs to God alone.

I John

1:9 If we confess our sins, he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Matthew

6:9, 12 After this manner...pray ye: Our Father... forgive us....

1 Timothy

2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope];

I John 2:1, ...And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

At the end of the day its up to you to decide what you think is most plausible and supportive when it comes to what God truly promotes. Choose wisely...

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Pope is not that 'holy'. He's JUST a man yet he's allowing people to bow to him,

Bowing is a form of respect. Just because we've lost that in modern American culture does not mean that it's a bad thing

call him 'holy',

Plenty of people have been called holy in the bible.

he forgives sins in place of Jesus

He forgives sins on the command of Jesus. The apostles did the exact same thing when they were given the power to drive out demons and things of the like.

he adds to scripture.

When? When in the history of Christianity has a single Pope added to scripture.

He's just wrong.

This is your opinion and you're entitled to it.

---------- Post added at 12:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 PM ----------

Keep your head up. I'm not going to respond to you. Mostly because you're opening a can of worms so large that we would need a thread per topic to explain it to you and even with that, I doubt you'll understand it because you don't want to understand. You are obviously very hostile to a Catholic point of view and I think it's far too much hassle then it's worth to try to explain it to you.

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Just remember everyone, the thread is meant to be a Q&A to ask sincere questions about the Catholic Church and the Pope, not to get on your soapbox so you can call them heretical. The Catholics here have been kind enough to respond to you so please be respectful, you're entitled to have your opinion but don't bash others for theirs <3

Merci beaucoup.

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It's more important to be kind than to be seen to be right if you're right, guys >> CHEER UP AND SMILE S'MORE )8

I was just wondering why the Pope has so much authority over catholicism. Like, being allowed to add to scripture, ideas such as purgatory.

The Pope didn't really do all that, but what the Church has done it does because Catholics believe some Church teaching is inspired in the same way the Bible is inspired. That is, The Holy Spirit directs the dogma of the Church in the way it directed the teachings of the Prophets of Israel and the Apostles of the biblical church.

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Thanks for the responses concerning this, even though it wasn't I who asked. I admire the knowledge you all have about your faith, and always ask one of you here when I have a question regarding Catholicism.

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