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shera441

Salvation in jesus Christ

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Salvation in Jesus Christ

The Demons of Hell Believe in Jesus Christ, but they obviously don't obey him. *James 2:19-20* What does this tell us? Believing in Christ is not enough. If someone calls themselves a Christian but does not have the fruit (Christ-like Behavior) to back it up, then they are lying. Children of God, behave like Children of God. It is impossible to make it to Heaven if you don't repent and embrace change. *Galatians 5:19-21* In the event that you have attempted to change and failed, accept Jesus Christ as your Savior and cry out to God. The bottom line is this; You can not change yourself - Change will only come through God's Holy Spirit. If you are one of those people who don't smoke or drink or party or lie or steal or cheat or do anything that's considered to be a sin in the bible, you still need Jesus. We all fall short of the glory of God. *Romans 3:23* God's definition of "Good" is a lot difference from man's. Have a look at the laws and customs that the Lord gave to the children of Israel in the book of Exodus and Leviticus. And that's just a fraction of what "good" is in the eyes of the Lord. He and he alone is Good. It's humanly impossible to please him outside of Jesus who died for us and stands in our place when we sin.

Repentance of sins along with accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior qualifies you for the gift of the Holy Spirit. *Acts 2:38*. (How will you know when you have the Holy Spirit? You will either have a strong desire to serve Christ and shun evil, and/or you will witness Jesus Christ himself indwell you with the Spirit. Jesus came to me personally. A desire to serve God came almost immediately afterwards.)

It is through the Holy Spirit that your relationship with Christ will begin to blossom, ultimately resulting in the real Truth about yourself, the world and Satan. This is called conviction. The goal is not to condemn you, but to help you see the Truth. *John 16:8-11* After you've been convicted by the Holy Spirit, you will have a strong desire to pursue change.

Patience, faith, willingness and determination is required during the process of change, as the process is progressive and far from easy. But, for those of you who don't give up by stirring up the Spirit (praying, mediating on the Word, walking in Love) and keeping your faith in Jesus, the faithful Holy Spirit of God will continue to do his work in you which will eventually produce fruit. *Galatians 5:22* (The fruit of the Spirit is another way of saying the Character of Jesus Christ or Godly Character. ) Results of the Fruit of the Spirit: 1.) Christ-like character/behavior 2.) An overwhelming desire to love, serve, honor and obey God. You are now a walking testimony, as the character and power of Jesus Christ shines through you!

Many Christians seek the gifts of God, but don't seek or obey him, and then have the nerve to get upset or rebel when God doesn't show up with a bag of goodies. I should know, I was one of them. Make no mistake about it, God loves to bless his obedient children with all sorts of gifts here on earth and in heaven. *Ecclesiastes 5:19* *Revelation 2:12* *Hebrews 11:6* Master Jesus is rich in every sense of the Word. Bill Gates, Donald Trump and Oprah put together can't even come close. The bible tell us that ALL of the power and honor and riches and glory are his. *2 Chronicles 1:12* *Hebrews 2:7* And, as children of God, everything he owns he shares with us! *Romans 8:17* The Lord makes rich and adds no sorrow to it . *Proverbs 10:22* You can be sure to enjoy earthly gifts from God regardless of what's going on in the economy. That begin said, we as Christians must stay in the Word and keep our focus on Loving the person Jesus and let the other stuff take care of itself. In other words, keep your eyes on the Blessor and not the Blessing. *Matthew 6:33*

WILL YOU ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOU LORD AND SAVIOR TODAY?

*Act 2:38/39*

Say the sinners prayer out loud:

Father God, I am a sinner. I need your son Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world, to set me free. I believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins, and that through the power of his blood all of my sins have been washed away. Here and now, I repent of all of my sins. I ask you to come into my life, Lord Jesus and be the Lord of my life. Amen!

Welcome to the family of God!

P.S.

One can not simply become a member of the family of God by saying the Sinners Prayer, but by doing what the prayer says which is to Repent and Believe in Jesus Christ. Believers have a responsibility to repent, God will not do this for us though, as mentioned, he will strengthen us and open our eyes through his Holy Spirit.

Cling onto Christ and his Word and keep up the faith. If you fall, get back up and keep on pressing forward with Jesus.

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So, if I say the sinner's prayer, am I saved for life? Is there anything required of me? Is it as simple as a prayer, and I could commit any sin I wished and still be on my way to heaven?

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So, if I say the sinner's prayer, am I saved for life? Is there anything required of me? Is it as simple as a prayer, and I could commit any sin I wished and still be on my way to heaven?

No. It is much more than just saying a prayer, or saying that you believe. It is by grace through faith that we are saved. If you say the prayer, but have no faith, you cannot possibly be saved. The only thing really required of you is your life.

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Shera441, some of this was certainly good. I was encouraged by your many Scripture citations, but I would encourage you to exam the Scriptures to see if you find terms such as "personal Saviour," and especially: "accept Jesus". I am not saying that these are inherently bad terms, but it is clearer to simply stick to the biblical language of "repent" and "believe".

The Scriptural consistency of your post took a nose-dive near the end. The idea of a "sinner's prayer" is not found in the Scriptures. Let me put it this way: if someone has truly come to the place where they realize that they have sinned against the infinitely holy God, and that in His sight they are nothing but vile and deserving of His eternal wrath-- do you really think that person is going to ask what kind of prayer they should pray? Or is that person going to desperately cry out to God for His mercy?

Also, just to point it out, your post had very little about the atonement, which is at the very heart of the gospel.

Let me know if you have any questions. I'm happy to help you. And by the way, welcome to CTF :)

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No. It is much more than just saying a prayer, or saying that you believe. It is by grace through faith that we are saved. If you say the prayer, but have no faith, you cannot possibly be saved. The only thing really required of you is your life.

Agree to an extent, but I would argue that it is through faith and works, for as St. James declared, we are justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:24)

Another question. Is salvation (Theosis, Sanctification) a one time event? Are we made holy automatically, or is it a lifelong thing that we must work at with fear and trembling, as St. Paul declared? (Phil 2:12).

Note I am not trying to attack or debate you, dear, I just want to hear your take on things. Blessing :)

Selah

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Salvation in Jesus Christ

The Demons of Hell Believe in Jesus Christ, but they obviously don't obey him. *James 2:19-20* What does this tell us? Believing in Christ is not enough. If someone calls themselves a Christian but does not have the fruit (Christ-like Behavior) to back it up, then they are lying. Children of God, behave like Children of God. It is impossible to make it to Heaven if you don't repent and embrace change. *Galatians 5:19-21*

Sorry but this is horribly off-base. The text says that the demons believe there is one god. It mentions nothing of Christ. There is a huge difference in believing the existence of God (believing of God) and believing in God/Christ. One saves and one does not. The Galatians verse you showed says nothing about entering the Kingdom of God, it talks about inheriting the Kingdom of God. He his talking about our inheritance, or rewards. This has nothing to do with justification.

What you are trying to do is eliminate the affects of the atonement. The whole point of the atonement is that we place ALL of our sins upon Christ. Let's say a person accepts Christ as their atonement, no matter how bad this person acts afterwards, they still placed their sins on Christ! How could God actually punish this person for something he already punished Christ with? He can't! They are made perfect and righteous in his eyes, no matter how they act. The whole "by their fruit you shall know them" thing, is very true however. If someone awfully, we can reasonable assume they have not accepted Christ, but if they have then they are still justified. Here's some scripture to support my case:

Romans 5:4-5

Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Many Christians seek the gifts of God, but don't seek or obey him, and then have the nerve to get upset or rebel when God doesn't show up with a bag of goodies. I should know, I was one of them. Make no mistake about it, God loves to bless his obedient children with all sorts of gifts here on earth and in heaven. *Ecclesiastes 5:19* *Revelation 2:12* *Hebrews 11:6* Master Jesus is rich in every sense of the Word. Bill Gates, Donald Trump and Oprah put together can't even come close. The bible tell us that ALL of the power and honor and riches and glory are his. *2 Chronicles 1:12* *Hebrews 2:7* And, as children of God, everything he owns he shares with us! *Romans 8:17* The Lord makes rich and adds no sorrow to it . *Proverbs 10:22* You can be sure to enjoy earthly gifts from God regardless of what's going on in the economy. That begin said, we as Christians must stay in the Word and keep our focus on Loving the person Jesus and let the other stuff take care of itself. In other words, keep your eyes on the Blessor and not the Blessing. *Matthew 6:33*

Oh no, I really hope you are not pushing the prosperity gospel. I don't want to misrepresent you but this "gospel" is nothing but a lie. I really hope you don't believe in it. Paul calls us to suffer for Christ, not expect him to give us BMW for our faith. Our only reward is in heaven. You really think the disciples and other church leaders, like Paul, were pushing this gospel? They were persecuted, imprisoned, and gave themselves over as martyrs for Christ.

Apart from all the doctrinal issues, welcome to CTF! Hope we can talk some of this stuff over. Feel free to message me if you want.

---------- Post added at 03:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:30 AM ----------

What if I am a good, moral loving person, but do not believe in God?

There is no 'good' person.

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Thanks for taking the time to write that Shera441, and welcome to the CTF! :) Wesker, there will be a time I believe when you will not only believe in God, but even know Him. I look forward to that day for everyone. :)

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Agree to an extent, but I would argue that it is through faith and works, for as St. James declared, we are justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:24)

Works are not a requirement for salvation, but they are important. As James says, faith without works is pointless, and rather selfish. What good is it to have faith in the true, living God if you do not display his love? In verse 18 he says:

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

I believe that the whole point of this statement is that you cannot show someone your faith if you do not have the deeds to accompany it. There is no proof of your faith if you do not also have the works. Actions really do speak louder than words, and it is by our actions that we will be known, not our words.

Another question. Is salvation (Theosis, Sanctification) a one time event? Are we made holy automatically, or is it a lifelong thing that we must work at with fear and trembling, as St. Paul declared? (Phil 2:12)

Being saved, I believe, happens the moment that you truly put your trust in God and repent from your sinful ways. In reading this passage of Philippians, it sounds like it's talking of salvation as though it is our ultimate goal of perfection ("... become blameless and pure, children of God without fault ..."). Perfection should be something that we strive and work for our whole lives.

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The Demons of Hell Believe in Jesus Christ, but they obviously don't obey him. *James 2:19-20* What does this tell us? Believing in Christ is not enough. If someone calls themselves a Christian but does not have the fruit (Christ-like Behavior) to back it up, then they are lying. Children of God, behave like Children of God. It is impossible to make it to Heaven if you don't repent and embrace change. *Galatians 5:19-21* In the event that you have attempted to change and failed, accept Jesus Christ as your Savior and cry out to God. The bottom line is this; You can not change yourself - Change will only come through God's Holy Spirit. If you are one of those people who don't smoke or drink or party or lie or steal or cheat or do anything that's considered to be a sin in the bible, you still need Jesus. We all fall short of the glory of God. *Romans 3:23* God's definition of "Good" is a lot difference from man's. Have a look at the laws and customs that the Lord gave to the children of Israel in the book of Exodus and Leviticus. And that's just a fraction of what "good" is in the eyes of the Lord. He and he alone is Good. It's humanly impossible to please him outside of Jesus who died for us and stands in our place when we sin.

I agree with this ^

It is through the Holy Spirit that your relationship with Christ will begin to blossom, ultimately resulting in the real Truth about yourself, the world and Satan. This is called conviction. The goal is not to condemn you, but to help you see the Truth. *John 16:8-11* After you've been convicted by the Holy Spirit, you will have a strong desire to pursue change.

Patience, faith, willingness and determination is required during the process of change, as the process is progressive and far from easy. But, for those of you who don't give up by stirring up the Spirit (praying, mediating on the Word, walking in Love) and keeping your faith in Jesus, the faithful Holy Spirit of God will continue to do his work in you which will eventually produce fruit. *Galatians 5:22* (The fruit of the Spirit is another way of saying the Character of Jesus Christ or Godly Character. ) Results of the Fruit of the Spirit: 1.) Christ-like character/behavior 2.) An overwhelming desire to love, serve, honor and obey God. You are now a walking testimony, as the character and power of Jesus Christ shines through you!

Many Christians seek the gifts of God, but don't seek or obey him, and then have the nerve to get upset or rebel when God doesn't show up with a bag of goodies. I should know, I was one of them. Make no mistake about it, God loves to bless his obedient children with all sorts of gifts here on earth and in heaven. *Ecclesiastes 5:19* *Revelation 2:12* *Hebrews 11:6* Master Jesus is rich in every sense of the Word. Bill Gates, Donald Trump and Oprah put together can't even come close. The bible tell us that ALL of the power and honor and riches and glory are his. *2 Chronicles 1:12* *Hebrews 2:7* And, as children of God, everything he owns he shares with us! *Romans 8:17* The Lord makes rich and adds no sorrow to it . *Proverbs 10:22* You can be sure to enjoy earthly gifts from God regardless of what's going on in the economy. That begin said, we as Christians must stay in the Word and keep our focus on Loving the person Jesus and let the other stuff take care of itself. In other words, keep your eyes on the Blessor and not the Blessing. *Matthew 6:33*

^And this

How will you know when you have the Holy Spirit? You will either have a strong desire to serve Christ and shun evil, and/or you will witness Jesus Christ himself indwell you with the Spirit.

^The real evidence of the filling with the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues. These other things will truly follow filling with the Holy Ghost, but the actual sign is speaking in tongues. Is that what you mean by Jesus Christ himself will indwell you with the Spirit? Because if so you're spot on.

*Act 2:38/39*

Say the sinners prayer out loud:

Father God, I am a sinner. I need your son Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world, to set me free. I believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins, and that through the power of his blood all of my sins have been washed away. Here and now, I repent of all of my sins. I ask you to come into my life, Lord Jesus and be the Lord of my life. Amen!

^NO! Just NO! There is no special prayer that you can randomly pray on your own. The Holy Spirit has to convict your heart and show you that you are lost before anything you say has any effect in changing your life *see John 6:44*. It isnt some drawn out prayer. It is simply acknowledging the fact that GOD (NOT MAN) has shown you that you are lost and in need of a savior and asking Jesus to save you from your sins and from Hell. At THAT time, all of your sins from birth to that point will be forgiven and forgotten by God. From the initial point of salvation one must live a Godly life to maintain ones salvation, that going to faith without works is dead. You dont work to stay saved, you work because you have been saved. If you dont work and attempt to live a holy life, how then can Christ be in you? Answer, i dare say he isnt. Are you lost again with every sin? Absolutely not. But a repeated lifestyle of sin without repentance (true Godly sorrow worketh repentance) forfits salvation, because if Christ is holy, and you live unholy, how then can Christ be in you?

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^The real evidence of the filling with the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues. These other things will truly follow filling with the Holy Ghost, but the actual sign is speaking in tongues. Is that what you mean by Jesus Christ himself will indwell you with the Spirit? Because if so you're spot on.

I do not agree with this at all. But that's probably a difference in the way that we were raised, denominational doctrines, and our perception of what the Bible talks about when it talks of speaking in "tongues."

You dont work to stay saved, you work because you have been saved.

Very true.

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You dont work to stay saved, you work because you have been saved.

My understanding of Salvation is vastly different, focusing on, yes, repentence, and then the journey to becoming Christlike, to becoming santified and absolutly perfect, no longer a sinner, but a saint. That is Theosis. I do not believe in an event that declares me holy. I believe in forgiveness and the praxis of Christianity, which is worked out with fear and trembling, in hopes that I will die in Christ and partake in the Beatific Vision, united with Christ forever.

So yes, I am saved, but I am also being saved, and I hope to also be saved. It's not just a past event I can look upon. Salvation is my past, present and my future.

Which is why I get so frustrated with the "sinner's prayer" as if it were some kind of incantation that can zap you into holiness.

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^The real evidence of the filling with the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues. These other things will truly follow filling with the Holy Ghost, but the actual sign is speaking in tongues. Is that what you mean by Jesus Christ himself will indwell you with the Spirit? Because if so you're spot on.

SMH... I have never spoke in tongues, so according to you I have not been filled with the holy spirit, and am not saved??

Do you have any scriptural evidence for that?

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SMH... I have never spoke in tongues, so according to you I have not been filled with the holy spirit, and am not saved??

Do you have any scriptural evidence for that?

I don't know what scriptural evidence she may have for it, but I do have scriptural evidence against it. 1 Corinthians 12:1-11

Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant. You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.

Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another he interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

Speaking in tongues is not the only sign that one is saved, or that the Holy Spirit is in him/her. By design, not one person will have all of the spiritual gifts. If they did, we would not be a united body of Christ. Speaking in tongues(languages) is one of the spiritual gifts, but it is not the only one. Have you ever met a very wise Christian, or a very faithful Christian? Those are spiritual gifts too, but those people wouldn't have the gift of speaking in tongues.

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Compassion is far more important of a spiritual gift than tongues.

"If I speak in the tongues of men and angels, but have no love, I am nothing more than a resounding gong or a clanging symbol (I Cor 13:1)

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SMH... I have never spoke in tongues, so according to you I have not been filled with the holy spirit, and am not saved??

Do you have any scriptural evidence for that?

Acts chapter 10 verses 44-46 KJV (i read it in context to the whole portion of scripture and it still made sense). "44. While Peter yet spake thewe words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45. And they of the circumcision which belieed where astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God."

Acts chapter 11 verses 15-18 KJV (also read in context and it makes sense)- "15. And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning." (that being at the day of Pentecost in Acts chapter 2) "16. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18. When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life."

Acts chapter 19 verses 2-7 KJV (read and makes sense)-2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.

I will also say that you recieve the Holy Ghost one time, and at that initial point you will speak with other tongues (be they an earthly or ecstatic language), and you have the Holy Ghost permenantly at that time. He can also direct you before you recieve him, just as God can direct your steps before you are saved (he does this every day because it is only God keepin you alive) so you can feel him speaking to you before you recieve him.

Also, speaking in tongues is not neccissary for salvation.

Speaking in tongues is not the only sign that one is saved, or that the Holy Spirit is in him/her. By design, not one person will have all of the spiritual gifts. If they did, we would not be a united body of Christ. Speaking in tongues(languages) is one of the spiritual gifts, but it is not the only one. Have you ever met a very wise Christian, or a very faithful Christian? Those are spiritual gifts too, but those people wouldn't have the gift of speaking in tongues.

Yes, you're rite those are other types of gifts. But the Bible mentions that you will recieve the Holy Ghost WITH the evidence of speaking in tongues. There are 2 types of speaking in tongues. One is the evidence of the Holy Ghost that I'm talking about which all can recieve (ecstatic language). The other is the gift of the Holy Ghost that you talk about, which is given at random (earthly language previously unknown.)

Speaking in tongues is NOT a sign of salvation. Nor a sign of ones spirituality. It is a sign that the Holy Ghost is in you. That is all. It is not required for salvation. Just an added benefit.

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Acts chapter 10 verses 44-46 KJV (i read it in context to the whole portion of scripture and it still made sense). "44. While Peter yet spake thewe words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45. And they of the circumcision which belieed where astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God."

Yes I agree that the gift of speaking in tongues (known tongues) is of the spirit.

Acts chapter 11 verses 15-18 KJV (also read in context and it makes sense)- "15. And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning." (that being at the day of Pentecost in Acts chapter 2) "16. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18. When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life."

Yes...both gentiles and jews can receive the spirit....agreed.

Acts chapter 19 verses 2-7 KJV (read and makes sense)-2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.

I will also say that you recieve the Holy Ghost one time, and at that initial point you will speak with other tongues (be they an earthly or ecstatic language), and you have the Holy Ghost permenantly at that time. He can also direct you before you recieve him, just as God can direct your steps before you are saved (he does this every day because it is only God keepin you alive) so you can feel him speaking to you before you recieve him.

When I received the holy spirit I did not speak in tongues. Are you saying that I didn't truly receive it?? And speaking in tongues is clearly defined in Acts 2 as KNOWN tongues, not xenoglossia.

Also, speaking in tongues is not neccissary for salvation.

You seem to be changing your mind here. Earlier you said this:

The real evidence of the filling with the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues. These other things will truly follow filling with the Holy Ghost, but the actual sign is speaking in tongues

Maybe I just misunderstood you but it seems like you were saying that speaking in tongues is necessary when receiving the holy spirit. We receive the holy spirit when we are saved, so it seems that you are implying that those who have not spoke in tongues, are not saved.

Yes, you're rite those are other types of gifts. But the Bible mentions that you will recieve the Holy Ghost WITH the evidence of speaking in tongues. There are 2 types of speaking in tongues. One is the evidence of the Holy Ghost that I'm talking about which all can recieve (ecstatic language). The other is the gift of the Holy Ghost that you talk about, which is given at random (earthly language previously unknown.)

It says certain people received the spirit and spoke in tongues. It does NOT say that all will though.

Speaking in tongues is NOT a sign of salvation. Nor a sign of ones spirituality. It is a sign that the Holy Ghost is in you. That is all. It is not required for salvation. Just an added benefit.

Well I could debate with you whether speaking in tongues is still in use as a gift, but I feel like that would be pointless. I do agree with you, however that speaking in known tongues is used by God occasionally as a miracle, and is of the spirit. But it is not the only evidence of the spirit at work. The real evidence is the fruit that a person bears.

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Maybe I just misunderstood you but it seems like you were saying that speaking in tongues is necessary when receiving the holy spirit. We receive the holy spirit when we are saved, so it seems that you are implying that those who have not spoke in tongues, are not saved.

This.

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Maybe I just misunderstood you but it seems like you were saying that speaking in tongues is necessary when receiving the holy spirit. We receive the holy spirit when we are saved, so it seems that you are implying that those who have not spoke in tongues, are not saved.

:)this is where we get our wires crossed, i understand now. I do not believe that you recieve the Holy Ghost at the point of salvation, but rather we recieve the Holy Ghost AFTER we accept Christ as our savior. Going back to the verses I mentioned. The bolded parts especially...

Acts chapter 19 verses 2-7 KJV (read and makes sense)-2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.

They already believed and were baptized under Johns baptism, that is they had been saved and baptized before the Holy Spirit came. Paul went to them and asked if they had recieved the Holy Ghost, when they said no, they were rebaptized in Jesus name and then prayed and recieved the Holy Ghost.

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:)this is where we get our wires crossed, i understand now. I do not believe that you recieve the Holy Ghost at the point of salvation, but rather we recieve the Holy Ghost AFTER we accept Christ as our savior. Going back to the verses I mentioned. The bolded parts especially...

Oh, that makes sense then! But I obviously disagree...lol

Acts chapter 19 verses 2-7 KJV (read and makes sense)-2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.

The only thing I have to say here is, read what I bolded. They said "we have not whether there be any Holy Ghost" and Paul responded "Unto what then where you baptized?" clearly implying that they had no actually been baptized if they did not receive the holy spirit, since you receive the holy spirit when baptized. Just as a clarification, I mean spiritual baptism, not the act of going under some water. Water baptism is meant as a public display of faith.

Anyway thanks for that clarification on what you said earlier!

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The only thing I have to say here is, read what I bolded. They said "we have not whether there be any Holy Ghost" and Paul responded "Unto what then where you baptized?" clearly implying that they had no actually been baptized if they did not receive the holy spirit, since you receive the holy spirit when baptized. Just as a clarification, I mean spiritual baptism, not the act of going under some water. Water baptism is meant as a public display of faith.

"Believer's baptism" aside, there is only one baptism. (Eph. 4:5) There is not 2 baptism, one "water" and one "spiritual".

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Oh, that makes sense then! But I obviously disagree...lol

The only thing I have to say here is, read what I bolded. They said "we have not whether there be any Holy Ghost" and Paul responded "Unto what then where you baptized?" clearly implying that they had no actually been baptized if they did not receive the holy spirit, since you receive the holy spirit when baptized. Just as a clarification, I mean spiritual baptism, not the act of going under some water. Water baptism is meant as a public display of faith.

Anyway thanks for that clarification on what you said earlier!

I can agree to disagree with a fellow Christian :) so its all good

---------- Post added at 06:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:12 PM ----------

"Believer's baptism" aside, there is only one baptism. (Eph. 4:5) There is not 2 baptism, one "water" and one "spiritual".

There is only one actual "baptism" thats right. However, people who believe in recieving the Holy Ghost call that "Baptism of the Holy Ghost." This quotes when Jesus said "John verily baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost." So while it isnt actual "baptism" as is water baptism, that is simply a name for the recieving of the Holy Ghost, its often used by Protestants. ;)

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If receiving the Holy Spirit does not coincide with being baptized, then why do we baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit? (Matt 28:19)

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If receiving the Holy Spirit does not coincide with being baptized, then why do we baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit? (Matt 28:19)

I'm Apostolic. We baptize in Jesus name (Acts 2:38).

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I'm Apostolic. We baptize in Jesus name (Acts 2:38).

Did Jesus not command us to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit? (Matthew 28:19)

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Did Jesus not command us to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit? (Matthew 28:19)

Acts 2:38. for more on that PM me :) we can talk about it in more detail haha.

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