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TeenLeaderTom

And Masturbation isn't sinful

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Ahh...gentlemen. I remember when I first arrived on ctf, I was an ardent anti-masturbation supporter. By that I mean, that I considered masturbation, in and of itself, sinful. Today, I admit that I was wrong and somewhat simplistic in my understanding of what sin truly is.

Back when I was young teen, I was stuck in the porn. It had engulfed my whole life. Lust was my lord. Thankfully, God had grace on me and delivered me from pornography. Still dealt with lust though. Still do sometimes. What guy doesn't? But for a time I went 133 days without masturbating. But then I fell and lusted, and I became once again biologically bound to masturbation.

Lately in my life, it's usually once every week. Sometimes a little shorter span than that. But usually, I'd say at least 90% of the time, I do not fantasize while I do it. I do not lust.

And that's what it's all about isn't it? That's the sin, lust. We don't call the sin masturbation, we call it lust. You won't find anywhere in Scripture that masturbation, in and of itself, is a sin. You'll find boatloads of scripture saying that lust is sinful. Today I recognize that distinction.

I believe as guys, we get all caught up in identifying the sin of lust as being the physical act of masturbation. This simply is not the case. Touching yourself, is not the equivalent of touching your girlfriend.

Intentionally touching yourself without lust isn't sinful. Intentionally touching your girlfriend's private areas in any situation would be sinful.

Jesus taught a message that focused on what the desires of our hearts are, what our thoughts are focused on. To merely think something with evil desire in one's heart is considered sinful. However, as humans, it is hard for us to comprehend mere thoughts as being truly sinful. If a guy thinks lustfully, he often fails to recognize the sinfulness of his ways. Yet when he ACTS out those thoughts through masturbation, he suddenly realizes the gravity of the sin as it has taken on a physical form. The dilemma that develops is that the young man now sees his sin to be the masturbation, rather than the lustfulness that may be partially driving him to do that. This then leads him into a crusade against his body, while the devil gleefully rejoices that he has confounded the saint into believing his physical flesh and bone are evil and distracted him from the true root of the problem.

The problem is lust, not masturbation, gentlemen.

Personally, I don't really believe masturbation is very beneficial. I would prefer to live without it. I believe it offers temptations to lust, but that it is indeed possible to do it without lusting. It is always preferable to flee from temptations, but to not flee should not be considered a sin in itself if one does not yield to them. So, what I challenge all of you and myself, is that we fast from masturbation. (the kind w/o lust)

Today, I'm going to commit to 3 weeks of fasting from it, to really focus in on God. I'm hoping to also really focus on continuing to improve how to better handle myself in situations with my girlfriend. It's been getting better, and I can a feel a true desire in my heart to chase after God. I challenge all of you guys to join me in this fast, and I ask that you reflect on whether you have the ability to masturbate without engaging in lustful thinking, and that you separate the real sin (the thoughts) from the symbol of sorts (masturbation).

Masturbation is to lust, as money is to greed. The former in both cases are morally neutral while the latter are sinful desires. Masturbation is not a sin.

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Ahh...gentlemen. I remember when I first arrived on ctf, I was an ardent anti-masturbation supporter. By that I mean, that I considered masturbation, in and of itself, sinful. Today, I admit that I was wrong and somewhat simplistic in my understanding of what sin truly is.

Back when I was young teen, I was stuck in the porn. It had engulfed my whole life. Lust was my lord. Thankfully, God had grace on me and delivered me from pornography. Still dealt with lust though. Still do sometimes. What guy doesn't? But for a time I went 133 days without masturbating. But then I fell and lusted, and I became once again biologically bound to masturbation.

Lately in my life, it's usually once every week. Sometimes a little shorter span than that. But usually, I'd say at least 90% of the time, I do not fantasize while I do it. I do not lust.

And that's what it's all about isn't it? That's the sin, lust. We don't call the sin masturbation, we call it lust. You won't find anywhere in Scripture that masturbation, in and of itself, is a sin. You'll find boatloads of scripture saying that lust is sinful. Today I recognize that distinction.

I believe as guys, we get all caught up in identifying the sin of lust as being the physical act of masturbation. This simply is not the case. Touching yourself, is not the equivalent of touching your girlfriend.

Intentionally touching yourself without lust isn't sinful. Intentionally touching your girlfriend's private areas in any situation would be sinful.

Jesus taught a message that focused on what the desires of our hearts are, what our thoughts are focused on. To merely think something with evil desire in one's heart is considered sinful. However, as humans, it is hard for us to comprehend mere thoughts as being truly sinful. If a guy thinks lustfully, he often fails to recognize the sinfulness of his ways. Yet when he ACTS out those thoughts through masturbation, he suddenly realizes the gravity of the sin as it has taken on a physical form. The dilemma that develops is that the young man now sees his sin to be the masturbation, rather than the lustfulness that may be partially driving him to do that. This then leads him into a crusade against his body, while the devil gleefully rejoices that he has confounded the saint into believing his physical flesh and bone are evil and distracted him from the true root of the problem.

The problem is lust, not masturbation, gentlemen.

Personally, I don't really believe masturbation is very beneficial. I would prefer to live without it. I believe it offers temptations to lust, but that it is indeed possible to do it without lusting. It is always preferable to flee from temptations, but to not flee should not be considered a sin in itself if one does not yield to them. So, what I challenge all of you and myself, is that we fast from masturbation. (the kind w/o lust)

Today, I'm going to commit to 3 weeks of fasting from it, to really focus in on God. I'm hoping to also really focus on continuing to improve how to better handle myself in situations with my girlfriend. It's been getting better, and I can a feel a true desire in my heart to chase after God. I challenge all of you guys to join me in this fast, and I ask that you reflect on whether you have the ability to masturbate without engaging in lustful thinking, and that you separate the real sin (the thoughts) from the symbol of sorts (masturbation).

Masturbation is to lust, as money is to greed. The former in both cases are morally neutral while the latter are sinful desires. Masturbation is not a sin.

It is a sin, because it is lust.

Lust isn't just fantasizing; lust is present in both thought and action. Fantasizing about illicit sex and having ilict sex are both sins of lust, lust is the expression of ilict sexual desire and occurs both in our thoughts and physical acts. Your sexuality is reserved for marriage, and when you masturbate, you attempt to derive sexual pleasure outside of its intended purpose, just as fornicating is deriving sexual pleasure from the ilicit use of your sexual organs; your sexual faculties are intended for use in marriage with your spouse, not with someone who is not your spouse, and not with yourself alone. Jesus did teach a message that taught us to look to the desires of our hearts, and what is the desire of someone's heart when they masturbate? They want the thrill of sexual pleasure without the relationship it was intended for which is in marriage; and this is wrong.

Masturbation is no more a symbol of the sin of lust than fornication is, they are both instrinsically sinful in an of themselves because those who engage in these acts use the human body in a way God did not intend for the human body to be used. God did not intend for us to fornicate with mutliple partners with no commitment, he intended us to have one spouse. And God did not intend for us to satisfy our sexual needs by touching ourselves either; every sin of a sexual nature in the Bible is sinful precisely because it takes sex out of the context of marriage. Homosexual sex acts, bestiality, fornicaiton, adultery, you name it.. all take sex away from the only proper context in marriage and pervert it. The same thing goes for masturbation; it perverts the proper expression of our sexuality which is reserved for marriage.

The Bible doesn't detail every sin imaginable; and the notion that if something is not explicitly labeled sinful in the Bible then it is not sinful is baseless. Would you say that cloning human beings is not sinful? With all the potential dangers that entails? The Bible is silent on the subject and yet Christians universally condemn it as "playing God" and treating Human beings like non humans, like things that can be manipulated for the purposes of other people. Masturbation, although there is no explicit refrence to its sinfulness, is recognized sinful implicitly based on God's plan for human sexuality which He has revealed to us, where expression of our sexuality is reserved for marriage and nowhere else.

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I really like what you've said and they way you put it. I also want to support what you're saying, as I know you're saying it for all the right reasons. HOWEVER, I do want to say a few things... Although in theory, it is possible to masturbate without lust and I agree that I have done this from time to time, I feel as though if one were to try to use this approach it can easily be twisted and pull one into even deeper temptation. I'd also like to say, God didn't create our parts for self pleasure - they were made to love. Notice I didn't say they weren't made for pleasure, but specifically self pleasure.

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I disagree, Tom.

Saying you can masturbate without lusting is like saying you can think without using your brain.

Lust is the desire of the flesh. The bible has examples of men who gave themselves to their lusts (desire to gratify their flesh), they wanted sex, they felt the need to have sex with men, so they went and did it. There was lust before the act was commited. They lusted, then they acted upon the lust. Same thing with masturbation. You lust to fulfill you bodily craving or your self gratification of masturbation. (Rom. 1:25-27).

Tom, I really do hope you see what is wrong with masturbation.

Don't be deceived by false doctrines that are constantly thrown into this forum.

You lust (desire) to gratify your flesh (in this case, masturbate), so you do it (action = sin = death).

[h=3]James 1:15[/h]New International Version (NIV)

15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

God bless you, Tom.

---------- Post added at 05:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:13 PM ----------

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. Gal 5:16

But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death. James 1:14-15

Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. 1 Peter 2:11

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body. 1 Cor 6:19-20

But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. Eph 5:3

But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. Rom 13:14

Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God. 2 Cor 7:1

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I will ask you what a friend of mine once asked me. Why do you masturbate? My answer to him was because it felt good. I was gratifying my flesh, my sinful nature. Now I used to think like you did. That it wasn't sinful as long as you didn't have lustful thoughts while you did it. But I have come to realize the very act of it is lust.

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When we are married, God tells us we don't have dominion over our own bodies, but our spouse has dominion over it, and neither does the spouse have dominion over her own body, but the husband has dominion over hers because they are no longer 2 but one flesh in Christ. So when it comes down to sexual activity, there is not supposed to be self gratification involved, but gratifying the spouse sexually. Masturbating yourself is out of the question. That's for the spouse to do for you.

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When we are married, God tells us we don't have dominion over our own bodies, but our spouse has dominion over it, and neither does the spouse have dominion over her own body, but the husband has dominion over hers because they are no longer 2 but one flesh in Christ. So when it comes down to sexual activity, there is not supposed to be self gratification involved, but gratifying the spouse sexually. Masturbating yourself is out of the question. That's for the spouse to do for you.
If we take that line of thought literally, does that not also permit marital rape?

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When we are married, God tells us we don't have dominion over our own bodies, but our spouse has dominion over it, and neither does the spouse have dominion over her own body, but the husband has dominion over hers because they are no longer 2 but one flesh in Christ. So when it comes down to sexual activity, there is not supposed to be self gratification involved, but gratifying the spouse sexually. Masturbating yourself is out of the question. That's for the spouse to do for you.

What about couples where one is serving their country in active duty (and have been deployed), would it be permissible to have sexual thoughts about the spouse and act on such thoughts through masturbation?

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What about couples where one is serving their country in active duty (and have been deployed), would it be permissible to have sexual thoughts about the spouse and act on such thoughts through masturbation?

The heaven and the earth will pass, but God's Word will not pass.

Regarding the message above, no, we are not supposed to compromise God's commands for our will. If you want to follow God, you do what He says. If He says only your wife is supposed to tend to your sexual desires, so be it. But if God tells us not to gratify ourselves because it's not what He wants, then we stay away from that. We're talking about masturbation like Mark just asked.

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Guest JAG
The heaven and the earth will pass, but God's Word will not pass.

Regarding the message above, no, we are not supposed to compromise God's commands for our will. If you want to follow God, you do what He says. If He says only your wife is supposed to tend to your sexual desires, so be it. But if God tells us not to gratify ourselves because it's not what He wants, then we stay away from that. We're talking about masturbation like Mark just asked.

So, I have some questions because I want you to think about this a little harder. First:

1) Is it sinful to lust after your spouse?

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So, I have some questions because I want you to think about this a little harder. First:

1) Is it sinful to lust after your spouse?

I don't know what happened to my post, but here I go again.

It's not sinful to desire your wife. She's your wife. You're married to her and you can have sex with her.

Now, if you masturbate to your wife because she's away, that's wrong.

[h=3]1 Corinthians 7:4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

4The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

You let your wife be the one who pleases your sexual apetites, not yourself. Same goes for the ladies.

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I disagree. In context, 1 Corinthians 7:4 is just telling husbands and wives to have sex and not deprive each other, esp. for manipulation. Why? Because it leads to temptation. What temptation? Almost certainly lust and adultery. If it is acceptable to lust after your spouse, then when you are apart by necessity there is no reason not to enjoy such fulfillment while thinking about him/her. You are not somehow depriving your spouse of his/her authority over your body.

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I disagree. In context, 1 Corinthians 7:4 is just telling husbands and wives to have sex and not deprive each other, esp. for manipulation. Why? Because it leads to temptation. What temptation? Almost certainly lust and adultery. If it is acceptable to lust after your spouse, then when you are apart by necessity there is no reason not to enjoy such fulfillment while thinking about him/her. You are not somehow depriving your spouse of his/her authority over your body.

There's actually another verse that specifically states what you're pointing out. But I agree with your point although I disagree that I used the verse out of context. Explain please.

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Use your common sense.
Considering the Bible has many instances of abducting women and basically making them sex-slaves, common sense does not tell me one answer over the other.

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Considering the Bible has many instances of abducting women and basically making them sex-slaves, common sense does not tell me one answer over the other.

You're bashing the Old Testament. Tell me if you can find anything like this in the New Testament, called New ​for a reason.

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You're bashing the Old Testament. Tell me if you can find anything like this in the New Testament, called New ​for a reason.
I am not saying the overall work of called the Bible supports raping your wife. I am merely trying to explore all the possibilities and broad tapestry of the Christian tradition.

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I am not saying the overall work of called the Bible supports raping your wife. I am merely trying to explore all the possibilities and broad tapestry of the Christian tradition.

This is getting off topic.

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