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Faithful Kevin

Masurbation is a sin.

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I think you missed my point in the post ;) The point is not about masturbation or wet dreams, the point is on the fact that the seed wasn't taken advantage of properly.
And I was just throwing out some psychoanalysis for the heck of it.

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*facepalm* go back to the post where I talked about nocturnal emissions, read the post in its full context and content, then if you do not understand, ask about what you don't understand. Is it really that hard for you to understand?

You know what the problem is? You're changing the subject here. The topic is called "Masturbation is a sin" and I've cited scriptures that back this up in context.

You're bringing up a new topic about how filthy it is to ejaculate. Then you're going to further deviate from the topic explaining more details of the ancient beliefs and scriptures about how a biblical character was punished for not passing descendants onto his brother's wife by having sex and ejaculating in her. Instead he pulled his penis out and ejaculated elsewhere. He was punished for not following the command of giving descendants to his brother.

Now please don't tell me you are trying to use this story as some type of analogy with anything that I've already posted against masturbation.

You're just changing the subject.

Plus, since I asked you my final question, you've only been playing the run around with me.

Then you keep asking me to re-read your posts, when I already understood your post.

I'm telling you, stop changing the topic and focus on the main one. If I start going along with you on nocturnal emissions argument, you're going to start a whole new debate that belongs in a new thread. Now please, I ask you, stay on the main topic.

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You know what the problem is? You're changing the subject here. The topic is called "Masturbation is a sin" and I've cited scriptures that back this up in context.

You're bringing up a new topic about how filthy it is to ejaculate. Then you're going to further deviate from the topic explaining more details of the ancient beliefs and scriptures about how a biblical character was punished for not passing descendants onto his brother's wife by having sex and ejaculating in her. Instead he pulled his penis out and ejaculated elsewhere. He was punished for not following the command of giving descendants to his brother.

Now please don't tell me you are trying to use this story as some type of analogy with anything that I've already posted against masturbation.

You're just changing the subject.

Plus, since I asked you my final question, you've only been playing the run around with me.

Then you keep asking me to re-read your posts, when I already understood your post.

I'm telling you, stop changing the topic and focus on the main one. If I start going along with you on nocturnal emissions argument, you're going to start a whole new debate that belongs in a new thread. Now please, I ask you, stay on the main topic.

Let me spell it out for you in plain English. The Bible only knows about sex for procreation. It does not speak about sex for recreational fun (between married individual). In Biblical Context, sex is for procreation. Understand?

There is no context on masturbation. The Bible does not mention it. Even if the Bible mentions something related to it, it cannot mean something that is not listed. If the Bible said it is sinful call using cellphones, texting would still be ok, because its not a call. Does this make sense? In Leviticus, the writer airs out a laundry list of sexual sins between animals, and family members. Notice, the writer never mentions masturbation.

You were quick to pull out Galatians 5:19-21. This list mentions Anger, Murder, fighting, hate. So, I guess anyone who has been angry, or fought with someone or hated someone is in the same boat then? When are you going to quit speaking out against your favorite "sins" to point out and take a stand against others?

PS, Don't backseat mod, it makes you look arrogant.

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Let me spell it out for you in plain English. The Bible only knows about sex for procreation. It does not speak about sex for recreational fun (between married individual). In Biblical Context, sex is for procreation. Understand?

Your point of view says we cannot pleasure our spouses and they are pretty much robots of procreation. More like animals. A baby machine.

Although the bible isn't a sex guide, pleasuring the spouse is something that should be present in a marriage.

There is no context on masturbation. The Bible does not mention it. Even if the Bible mentions something related to it, it cannot mean something that is not listed.

That's where you are wrong. Just because the bible doesn't say "don't masturbate", doesn't mean you can masturbate. I've listed plenty of examples that point out masturbation is a desire of the flesh. HOW IS IT NOT?

If the Bible said it is sinful call using cellphones, texting would still be ok, because its not a call. Does this make sense? In Leviticus, the writer airs out a laundry list of sexual sins between animals, and family members. Notice, the writer never mentions masturbation.

It's possible they didn't have the custom of masturbating in those times.

You were quick to pull out Galatians 5:19-21. This list mentions Anger, Murder, fighting, hate. So, I guess anyone who has been angry, or fought with someone or hated someone is in the same boat then?When are you going to quit speaking out against your favorite "sins" to point out and take a stand against others?

PS, Don't backseat mod, it makes you look arrogant.

Galatians 5:19-21

King James Version (KJV)

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Did you read a different version of the bible? Where is anger in here? Where is fighting in here? The word of God says:

Ephesians 4:26

King James Version (KJV)

26Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

You can't tell me that being angry is a sin.

So, I guess anyone who has been angry, or fought with someone or hated someone is in the same boat then?

Being angry isn't a sin. Depends on what you are referring to when you mention "fighting". You might mean fighting as in contention? Yes, that's a fruit of the flesh. You mean fighting physically? It all depends. If you are fighting a person off because that person is beating your wife, then I can't see how defending your wife is a fruit of the flesh. Hatred? Jesus said himself, if you hate your brother, you are judged as a homicide. The Word of God also says if you say you love God but you don't love your brother, you don't have the Word in you and you are a farce. Hatred against a person is a fruit of the flesh.

Good try, but I don't like to compromise the Word of God.

When are you going to quit speaking out against your favorite "sins" to point out and take a stand against others?

That's for me to decide.

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You missed my point. My point was when are you going to carry the weight of the whole verse, rather than picking which one "sin" in the list you are going to speak out against.

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You missed my point. My point was when are you going to carry the weight of the whole verse, rather than picking which one "sin" in the list you are going to speak out against.

Mark, those verses point out different fruits. I can pick out specifically whichever I want to explain or not.

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I'm bored of your circular logic. It's going nowhere, and you are incapable of looking at beliefs from different angles.

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I'm bored of your circular logic. It's going nowhere, and you are incapable of looking at beliefs from different angles.

You say you don't reject the word, but you refuse to use logic or common sense when you read these scriptures.

I can't see how you cannot understand something so basic.

What I notice about you is you've tried to change the subject a number of times and still fail to acknowledge that masturbation is a sin because of your own opinions.

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So, just a question.

Faithful Kevin, what is the point of trying to prove to Mark J that masturbation is a sin?

Is that something that Jesus would have done? Argued back and forth to try and prove that He's right and the other person is wrong? I don't think He would have. Jesus wouldn't have looked at that, He would have looked right to the heart and shown love.

Everyone on this forum knows that you're now the biggest supporter that masturbation is a sin. TeenLeaderTom used to be one of those too, until he realized that masturbation can easily be non-sinful. Regardless, you need only post once in any of these masturbation threads rather than drag the thread out into a battle between you and Mark J. On top of that, the original poster no longer cares about the post when it disintegrates into useless blathering.

My advice is to focus on helping the original poster with any specific questions that they may have and above all, to show them love.

If anyone wants to talk privately about masturbation or anything else, please feel free to contact me.

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I think the bigger issue is why 90% of the threads on this section are about masturbation. What is the ratio of people seriously struggling / trolling.

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So, just a question.

Faithful Kevin, what is the point of trying to prove to Mark J that masturbation is a sin?

Is that something that Jesus would have done? Argued back and forth to try and prove that He's right and the other person is wrong? I don't think He would have. Jesus wouldn't have looked at that, He would have looked right to the heart and shown love.

Everyone on this forum knows that you're now the biggest supporter that masturbation is a sin. TeenLeaderTom used to be one of those too, until he realized that masturbation can easily be non-sinful. Regardless, you need only post once in any of these masturbation threads rather than drag the thread out into a battle between you and Mark J. On top of that, the original poster no longer cares about the post when it disintegrates into useless blathering.

My advice is to focus on helping the original poster with any specific questions that they may have and above all, to show them love.

If anyone wants to talk privately about masturbation or anything else, please feel free to contact me.

What did the apostles do when they confronted people who shared false doctrines?

What did the apostles do when a member of Christ decided to teach a false doctrine?

What would Jesus do if His disciples were being taught false doctrines?

What would Jesus say to a person who taught false doctrines to His sheep?

This is where I stand.

PS: Mark can chip in as much as he wants. He replied to the thread, so I replied to him... and so on.

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What did the apostles do when they confronted people who shared false doctrines?

What did the apostles do when a member of Christ decided to teach a false doctrine?

What would Jesus do if His disciples were being taught false doctrines?

What would Jesus say to a person who taught false doctrines to His sheep?

This is where I stand.

PS: Mark can chip in as much as he wants. He replied to the thread, so I replied to him... and so on.

What did Jesus do when someone didn't act the way he wanted them when they heard his teaching? Did he badger them to death? Absolutely not. In our finite minds, we have no rational ability to label anything as sinful. Each man must live his life between himself and his Creator. If his Creator tells him not to do a various activity, then that man should refrain, but to label that activity as sinful for all people is absolutely absurd. Even more so, when the decided holy text of a religion does not specifically state something, we can not for certain label it sinful, especially when the hands that wrote it were men who lived in a certain culture in a certain geographical location, in a certain era. To say that everything in the text is applicable in a different culture, location, and era would be untrue to the text itself.

Is Masturbation a sin? Pray about it, if God tells you not to do it, then don't. If He doesn't convict you about it, then live long and prosper.

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So clearly I've somehow managed to overlook this thread for the past two weeks. I apologize for that.

Regardless, you two have broken rule 2 all over the place. I'm not going to go through and infract and delete now because I think it's unfair to you for me to hand out warnings retroactively.

From this point on, however, if you insult a member, you will receive an infraction.

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What did Jesus do when someone didn't act the way he wanted them when they heard his teaching? Did he badger them to death? Absolutely not. In our finite minds, we have no rational ability to label anything as sinful. Each man must live his life between himself and his Creator. If his Creator tells him not to do a various activity, then that man should refrain, but to label that activity as sinful for all people is absolutely absurd. Even more so, when the decided holy text of a religion does not specifically state something, we can not for certain label it sinful, especially when the hands that wrote it were men who lived in a certain culture in a certain geographical location, in a certain era. To say that everything in the text is applicable in a different culture, location, and era would be untrue to the text itself.

Is Masturbation a sin? Pray about it, if God tells you not to do it, then don't. If He doesn't convict you about it, then live long and prosper.

I want to address a number of points here.

You are right. Maybe Jesus didn't argue back and forth, but I know the apostles did.

Scriptures were indeed written hundreds of years ago (if not, thousands) and there is a specific scripture I'm pointing out to you specifically so that you can understand that masturbation is a sin because, as you've said, scriptures don't point out "refrain from masturbation", which I highly doubt the word "masturbation" existed back then (though I might be wrong).

This is the scripture:

Galatians 5 (New King James Version)

Walking in the Spirit

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[c] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[d] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I want you to pay attention to verse 21 where it says "and the like".

Here we see that there is generalization going on with "and the like" and we can't really know for sure what they are unless we cross reference the bible, because we both know the bible has multiple answers for one question most of the time, including this one.

So, you tell yourself, "I don't see where this says not to masturbate, so that means I can masturbate if I want to".

This is where I prove to you that the bible does indeed prove that masturbation is a sin.

But how you ask? Answer: Like I wrote above, cross reference. Let's look up some more scripture about what are the deeds of the flesh and what are the deeds of the Spirit and things that are alike to these, because, after all, it doesn't say "masturbation is deemed unholy, refrain from such practice".

This is where we use our common sense. Let's begin:

First of all, we both know masturbation feels good. It brings pleasure and if done properly it causes an orgasm, regardless of sex.

Why do we masturbate? Well, for the pleasure of course. That's an obvious question. (I hope you don't start the whole "doctor wants sperm" argument).

Another fact is people can get addicted to masturbation. We know this.

OK. So that was easy.

Now, let us look at what the scriptures talk about:

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. Gal 5:16

By definition, we know that masturbation is a gratification of one's own fleshly desire. This proves Gal 5:16 to point out that masturbation is a desire of the flesh. Let's go on.

Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. 1 Peter 2:11

Ok. So here on 1 Peter 2:11, we see that the passions of the flesh wage war against our soul. Hmm. So that means masturbation (which is a desire of the flesh) wages war against our soul. Wow.

Galatians 5:16-21 pretty much state what those desires of the flesh are and that there are other desires of the flesh that are not mentioned, but are like the others. It also states what the fruits of the Spirit are and how they always go against the deeds of the flesh. (Remember, we've just proven that masturbation by definition is a desire of the flesh).

Ok. So we've proved it once more. Is there more? Of course there is.

Here is another one:

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body. 1 Cor 6:19-20

There is a portion of this scripture that says, "So glorify God in your body". Now, ask yourself, are you glorifying God when you are masturbating? I don't think so and I believe you don't think so either.

Is there more? Yes, there is.

But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. Rom 13:14.

Once again, "and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires". Remember what I wrote in the beginning, which is unarguably correct? Here it is again just in case you forgot: "Why do we masturbate? Well, for the pleasure of course. (I hope you don't start the whole "doctor wants sperm" argument)."

Ok. So masturbating is making provision for the flesh, to gratify your desire, which is a sin to do so. Where does it say it is a sin? Once again, it's in Galatians 5, where it speaks about the desires of the flesh and how they are repugnant to God.

I'm going to stop here. I will appreciate it if you address my argument directly. Thank you.

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I want to address a number of points here.

You are right. Maybe Jesus didn't argue back and forth, but I know the apostles did.

It does not matter what the Apostles did. Christians are supposed to act like Christ.
Scriptures were indeed written hundreds of years ago (if not, thousands) and there is a specific scripture I'm pointing out to you specifically so that you can understand that masturbation is a sin because, as you've said, scriptures don't point out "refrain from masturbation", which I highly doubt the word "masturbation" existed back then (though I might be wrong).
The Gospel of Mark (which currently is the eldest of the Gospels) is dated around the late 50s AD.

This is the scripture:

Galatians 5 (New King James Version)

Walking in the Spirit

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[c] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[d] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I want you to pay attention to verse 21 where it says "and the like".

Here we see that there is generalization going on with "and the like" and we can't really know for sure what they are unless we cross reference the bible, because we both know the bible has multiple answers for one question most of the time, including this one.

So, you tell yourself, "I don't see where this says not to masturbate, so that means I can masturbate if I want to".

This is where I prove to you that the bible does indeed prove that masturbation is a sin.

But how you ask? Answer: Like I wrote above, cross reference. Let's look up some more scripture about what are the deeds of the flesh and what are the deeds of the Spirit and things that are alike to these, because, after all, it doesn't say "masturbation is deemed unholy, refrain from such practice".

"In the final part of the letter (5:12-6:18) Paul warned the Galatians that there were lifestyle implications to believing that Jesus was the Messiah. But these were matters of relationships and holiness--Not religious ritual. James agreed with this message: there is nothing in his letter regarding ritual observations. An interesting exercise is to compare the lifestyle admonitions that Paul makes in the last two chapters of Galatians with those that James makes. "The Promise and the Blessing. Harbin. Chapter 22, Page 466.

" Although most of the trouble in the Galatian church came from the legalists, others in the church may have tried to press Christian freedom beyond its limits. Paul now referred to this group (5:13-18). First, he described the right use of freedom--Serving one another in love (5:13). Second, he pointed out that this freedom comes not by rendering obedience to a set of rules but by living continually in a Spirit controlled existence (5:16).

Paul then proceeded to discuss the vast benefits bestowed upon the believer by the presence of the Spirit. Human nature left to itself produces an astonishing variety of vices (5:19-21). In complete contrast, human beings enabled by the Holy Spirit produce a bountiful harvest of qualities that fulfill God's laws (5:22-24. Paul emphasized that it was imperative for Christians to keep step with the Spirit (5:25). The New Testament: Its Background and Message II Edition, Thomas Lea and David Black, Chapter 15, Page 374

"5:16-26

Just as human effort could not gain justification, neither can it achieve sanctification. Within every believer is the confilict between the flesh (sin nature) and the Holy Spirit (new nature). When the Christi is walking and is being led by the Spirit, the the ninefold fruit (singular) of the Spirit will be grown or developed through the man's personality. If the believer is not yielded to the Spirit, he will manifest the worsk of the flesh, the very sins that mark the habitual life-style of the unbeliever." New Testament Survey, Gromacki, page 239.

These authors are saying that it if a man lives by the Spirit, he will live a life that gives glory to God, and he will not live like the world. It never says he will not have a drink, it never says he will never masturbate. It says that he will not live like the pagans.

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These authors are saying that it if a man lives by the Spirit, he will live a life that gives glory to God, and he will not live like the world. It never says he will not have a drink, it never says he will never masturbate. It says that he will not live like the pagans.

This is understandable, the bible doesn't say one will not sin, it says NOT to sin. And one of the acts of the flesh (which are sinful) are impurities and lusts. Masturbation falls into those as I've mentioned before.

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I don't think anyone could make the argument that masturbation pleases or brings glory to God.

That being said, are we not to do all for the glory of God? Pleasing our worldly body is not what we're here to do.

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