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Does anyone think salvation depends on one's acceptance of Young Earth Creationism?

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Sorry to create another thread about the evolution topic, but it leads to so much discussion it's almost impossible to avoid, lol. Was talking to a friend recently, long time friend and one of my best of all time...discussing the evolution topic. Of course, I've always known him to be a traditional 6,000 year-believing YEC. Fair enough. Somehow we ended up getting onto the topic of salvation, and I was a bit surprised. He told me that not only does he disagree with theological evolution, but he believes that people who believe God used evolution to create the world have lost their salvation as a result. To me, this was extremely overboard. Don't get me wrong, I DEFINITELY understand disagreeing with theological evolution. But, if you have someone who believes in the Bible's 100% accuracy and that Christ is the only way of attaining salvation, but interprets the days as ages and within a Biblical framework believes that God used evolution, I don't see how that person has lost his or her salvation because of it. I could see the idea of thinking that theological evolution is wrong, or the idea of disagreeing with it, but to think someone loses their salvation on behalf of believing in it? Unbelievable, to be honest. As long as the person in question has the important theological beliefs in order, everything seems to be fine with me - acceptance or denial of YEC should be irrelevant.

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I think it's wrong to fixate on salvation in the first place. Salvation occurs in order to facilitate the good within us; we don't cultivate goodness to achieve salvation. Good belief, good action, good personhood--these are inherently valuable, regardless of whether they indicate heaven or Hell.

That said, I don't believe in YEC, so obviously I don't agree with your friend.

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I agree. However, I suppose he'd say that believing in theistic evolution is proof that the person doesn't have salvation. He'd word it that way.

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That's a radical belief, even for someone who believes in the ability to lose salvation and the Genesis account of creation like I do.

While I don't believe in evolution for a second, I highly disagree with your friend on the fact that the belief in how the world was made determines salvation. God leaves some things open to interpretation. Creation is one of them. While I believe the Genesis account of creation, I don't think the "how long" really matters as long as you give credit to the "who" in the process. That being God created it, regardless of what method he used to do it.

No your belief/disbelief in creation and the method used don't matter. The only thing that really ultimately matters is that people give the glory to God and recognize that however it happened or how long it took, God created Earth, animal, and man.

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That's a radical belief, even for someone who believes in the ability to lose salvation and the Genesis account of creation like I do.

While I don't believe in evolution for a second, I highly disagree with your friend on the fact that the belief in how the world was made determines salvation. God leaves some things open to interpretation. Creation is one of them. While I believe the Genesis account of creation, I don't think the "how long" really matters as long as you give credit to the "who" in the process. That being God created it, regardless of what method he used to do it.

No your belief/disbelief in creation and the method used don't matter. The only thing that really ultimately matters is that people give the glory to God and recognize that however it happened or how long it took, God created Earth, animal, and man.

Whole-heartedly agreed, and very well-said. What would drive a person into a belief like my friend's? Lack of self-confidence in his belief in YEC? Maybe deep down he's iffy about it altogether so to compensate he makes it seem like a "do or die" thing. Kind of like how people with low self-esteem often take on unpleasant attitudes towards life. Just an idea, but who knows?

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Whole-heartedly agreed, and very well-said. What would drive a person into a belief like my friend's? Lack of self-confidence in his belief in YEC? Maybe deep down he's iffy about it altogether so to compensate he makes it seem like a "do or die" thing. Kind of like how people with low self-esteem often take on unpleasant attitudes towards life. Just an idea, but who knows?

I can't say for sure, but I would think more than anything it's the beliefs of a church or family and that's how he's been raised. Not to bash your friend, his church, or his family, but usually radical beliefs like that come after being long drilled into a person, often by a church or family that thinks there beliefs about a subject are the ONLY correct beliefs about said subject. I went to a church once that was like that about sexual abstinence. They told all the teenagers in a youth group that if they weren't virgins on there wedding night, that they were going to Hell with no chance at redemption. Yes, anything sexual before marriage is sinful. But people make mistakes. Pray for the person and let God judge.

Anyway that's just my theory.

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No, you can adopt to many different interpretations of Genesis 1-2 without it affecting your salvation.

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There's some verse about all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. That verse doesn't say that you HAVE to be a young earth creationist or even a creationist at all to get to heaven. What you believe about Genesis 1 may greatly affect your world view, but I don't think it affects your salvation.

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I think it's wrong to fixate on salvation in the first place.

I was just thinking that. Its not our job to decide what makes us saved and not saved anyhow.

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You know, I can see where he might get that idea from (although I strongly disagree with him). When I read the OP I immediately thought of Ephesians 2:8 (For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God). Someone could interpret not believing in the literal interpretation of Genesis as not having faith in God (note, this is all hypothetically speaking; I have no idea what your friend's basis is). To someone with that view, those of us (myself included) who believe in Theistic Evolution have chosen to trust a theory of science/man over the Word of God. There was a man in my church who was a very passionate Creationist and his reason was "If Christians don't believe the very beginning of the Bible to be true then how can they believe any of the Bible to be true?" Now he has a point, but I do believe the Genesis story to be true; just that it's spiritual truth rather than scientific truth.

That being said, it's not doctrine that saves us, but the grace of God. To paraphrase Tony Campolo, Saint Peter isn't going to be standing at the pearly gates when you die with a questionnaire reading: 1. Virgin birth: Strongly Agree, Agree, Disagree, Strongly Disagree (circle one), Question 2...

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Salvation comes by faith in Jesus Christ and cannot be lost according to Philippians 1:6 and Hebrews 12:2.

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Sorry to create another thread about the evolution topic, but it leads to so much discussion it's almost impossible to avoid, lol. Was talking to a friend recently, long time friend and one of my best of all time...discussing the evolution topic. Of course, I've always known him to be a traditional 6,000 year-believing YEC. Fair enough. Somehow we ended up getting onto the topic of salvation, and I was a bit surprised. He told me that not only does he disagree with theological evolution, but he believes that people who believe God used evolution to create the world have lost their salvation as a result. To me, this was extremely overboard. Don't get me wrong, I DEFINITELY understand disagreeing with theological evolution. But, if you have someone who believes in the Bible's 100% accuracy and that Christ is the only way of attaining salvation, but interprets the days as ages and within a Biblical framework believes that God used evolution, I don't see how that person has lost his or her salvation because of it. I could see the idea of thinking that theological evolution is wrong, or the idea of disagreeing with it, but to think someone loses their salvation on behalf of believing in it? Unbelievable, to be honest. As long as the person in question has the important theological beliefs in order, everything seems to be fine with me - acceptance or denial of YEC should be irrelevant.
No, I do not believe so. I don't recall Jesus saying you need to believe in a young earth to be saved.

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No, I do not believe so. I don't recall Jesus saying you need to believe in a young earth to be saved.

To be saved, you have to believe in God.

Who sent his son Jesus.

Who died on the cross.

2,000+ years ago.

In a way... It seems like you don't have to believe in a young Earth... You've just got to believe that the man that died for your sins died in the time span of the young Earth.

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That's a radical belief, even for someone who believes in the ability to lose salvation and the Genesis account of creation like I do.

While I don't believe in evolution for a second, I highly disagree with your friend on the fact that the belief in how the world was made determines salvation. God leaves some things open to interpretation. Creation is one of them. While I believe the Genesis account of creation, I don't think the "how long" really matters as long as you give credit to the "who" in the process. That being God created it, regardless of what method he used to do it.

No your belief/disbelief in creation and the method used don't matter. The only thing that really ultimately matters is that people give the glory to God and recognize that however it happened or how long it took, God created Earth, animal, and man.

In most cases it doesn't, but it is possible for it to. The implications of beliefs such as theistic evolution take a devastating toll to the value of Scripture and destroying doctrines taught therein. For example, death and disease are placed before the fall of man, God did not directly created Adam and Eve (mankind evolved), etc. The point being it is possible for it to have such an effect as to affect one's salvation, though I do not believe that this applies necessarily to all instances. It comes down to how much God allows a person to be wrong theologically and still maintain a relationship with Him.

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In Acts 17:22, Paul begins his address to the men of Athens. After a short introduction, Paul launches straight into the doctrine of creation, discussing how God made from one man every nation of mankind. The doctrine of creation, then, is not a side issue. It's something that's very central to who God is.

Furthermore, other important doctrines within the Christian faith are based on what took place within the creation account. In Matthew 19:3-9, Jesus' basis for the covenant of marriage is on the fact that in the beginning God made them man and female (and He commanded that "a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh").

The doctrine of creation also affects the doctrine of sin. In Romans 5, the Apostle Paul speaks of the doctrine of original sin, clearly assuming and believing that Adam was indeed the first man.

Man is entirely unique in creation. He is made in the image of God. He is separate from the common animal.

I could go on, but I'll stop there. The point is that there's a lot to lose if you try to force Genesis 1 and 2 to somehow agree with the theory of evolution. I would not outright reject someone's Christianity if they believed that God used evolution to create the world. I would, however, be skeptical. Chances are, if someone rejects what is clearly taught in Genesis 1 and 2 (and in many other parts in the Bible-- keep in mind that all throughout the OT and NT God is consistently portrayed as Creator), there are other problems lurking beneath the surface. When does such a person start believing that what the Bible says about history? Once Cain and Abel arrive? Once the flood occurs? Once Abraham is born? Or maybe not even until after the Exodus?

Up until now, I haven't said anything regarding young earth or old earth. You can believe in an old earth and still reject evolution. You could, for instance, argue that there is some sort of gap in between Genesis 1:1-2 and Genesis 1:3-4. Personally, I don't agree with the gap theory, and I think it's a bit of a stretch, but I don't see how it would create any major theological problems.

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Up until now, I haven't said anything regarding young earth or old earth. You can believe in an old earth and still reject evolution. You could, for instance, argue that there is some sort of gap in between Genesis 1:1-2 and Genesis 1:3-4. Personally, I don't agree with the gap theory, and I think it's a bit of a stretch, but I don't see how it would create any major theological problems.
You already said how it could: "The doctrine of creation also affects the doctrine of sin. In Romans 5, the Apostle Paul speaks of the doctrine of original sin, clearly assuming and believing that Adam was indeed the first man."

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You already said how it could: "The doctrine of creation also affects the doctrine of sin. In Romans 5, the Apostle Paul speaks of the doctrine of original sin, clearly assuming and believing that Adam was indeed the first man."

I was speaking specifically and only of the gap theory.

If there's any sort of gap between this:

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

And this:

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Then that wouldn't have any implications on Romans 5.

If all there was in this "gap" (of however long) was an earth without form and void, covered only with darkness and water (and no living organism), then would that have an effect on Romans 5? I don't think so. Because even if there was a gap, every living thing still would have been created in the six days following the gap.

Once again, I don't believe in the gap theory. I'm just saying that accepting it doesn't create major theological problems like theistic evolution or something similar.

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Guest JAG

Dude, you don't even have to believe the Earth exists to be saved. This is jacked up.

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I was speaking specifically and only of the gap theory.

Once again, I don't believe in the gap theory. I'm just saying that accepting it doesn't create major theological problems like theistic evolution or something similar.

oh ok...

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Dude, you don't even have to believe the Earth exists to be saved. This is jacked up.

Exactly :P

But seriously, salvation depends on the acceptance of Jesus Christ, not the belief in how the Earth got here. You could believe that God used pixie dust to put it here and as long as you believe that God did it, that's what matters. Anyone can accept Jesus Christ no matter how they believe (or as James said, if they believe) the Earth came into existence.

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