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MEN OF GOD & POLITICS.

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Should men of God indulge in politics?

I think they should not due to the negative exposures involved with it.

What do you think ?

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If "men of God" did not "indulge" (which I think is a bad word for it, but whatever) in politics, our government would be very scary indeed. As Christians, we are supposed to "go and take dominon", and that does not mean sitting back and letting all the non-Christians rule the world.

And I'm not sure what you mean by negative exposures. There are negative exposures wherever you look; not sure why we have to single out politics as sinful.

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The question rather should be: Can "men of god" be involved in politics, and keep their religious biases to a minimum?

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Should men of God indulge in politics?

I think they should not due to the negative exposures involved with it.

What do you think ?

All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify.

We have freedom in Christ as to our profession. Whether or not you could handle the specific pressures and temptation of a particular occupation would be your own responsibility. But there is certainly no 'thou shalt not indulge in politics' commandment.

The question rather should be: Can "men of god" be involved in politics, and keep their religious biases to a minimum?

hahaha. I find this a little insulting. You basically just implied that all Christians do not have the mental capacity to understand the separation of church and state....ugh.

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hahaha. I find this a little insulting. You basically just implied that all Christians do not have the mental capacity to understand the separation of church and state....ugh.

My point is this: Don't try to pass a law that could be seen as one attempting to shove his religious convictions onto the whole of society. While what you said may be true in some cases, (see Rick Santorum) it is not a reflection of their mental capacity.

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I don't know if men of God should be involved in politics or not, but there's one thing certain: aligning with a particular party is to be avoided.

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
faction: party spirit especially when marked by dissension

a group or clique within a larger group, party, government,

organization

, or the like: a faction in favor of big business.

A party in the state or in any community or association.

In case you don't believe me, other Bible versions translate the verses similarly:

dissension, division
factions, divisions, parties
dissension, party spirit

As you can see, Galatians clearly indicates that "party spirit" is among the "anti-fruits" of the Spirit. If we are to be involved in politics, we must dissociate ourselves with any parties and party spirit and rather seek to foster the true fruits of the Spirit in all our interactions.

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These verses must be taken in context, though. They have nothing to do with politics, but divisions within the church. It is like when they were saying, "I follow Apollos," or "I follow Paul." The roles and relations we have with church and state must not be confused. Parties are useful in politics because they allow us to gain strength in numbers to support whatever causes we believe. We must not play party politics like: "My party, right or wrong," but we can align with a party inasmuch as we recognize it's flaws and are willing to contradict it when conscience requires.

As for believers entering politics, I agree with Megan. We must do it because it is irresponsible and inappropriate to leave the governing of our societies in the hands of unbelievers.

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My point is this: Don't try to pass a law that could be seen as one attempting to shove his religious convictions onto the whole of society. While what you said may be true in some cases, (see Rick Santorum) it is not a reflection of their mental capacity.

I don't think your going to get much argument for Rick Santorum on this end ;)

I don't know if men of God should be involved in politics or not, but there's one thing certain: aligning with a particular party is to be avoided.

[/font][/color][/left]In case you don't believe me, other Bible versions translate the verses similarly:

As you can see, Galatians clearly indicates that "party spirit" is among the "anti-fruits" of the Spirit. If we are to be involved in politics, we must dissociate ourselves with any parties and party spirit and rather seek to foster the true fruits of the Spirit in all our interactions.

Slave of Elyon is correct, these verses have nothing to do with what you are trying to apply it to. I don't think Paul had American political parties in mind when writing this letter, mainly because America didn't exist ;)

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I don't know if men of God should be involved in politics or not, but there's one thing certain: aligning with a particular party is to be avoided.

[/font][/color][/left]In case you don't believe me, other Bible versions translate the verses similarly:

As you can see, Galatians clearly indicates that "party spirit" is among the "anti-fruits" of the Spirit. If we are to be involved in politics, we must dissociate ourselves with any parties and party spirit and rather seek to foster the true fruits of the Spirit in all our interactions.

Does this apply to sports as well? Where you form part of a team and are rivals against another where there is division and strife and you can find yourself rooting for the success of one team and wishing for the failure of the other?

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Okay, okay, you got me, I was using the verse out of context. xD I just wanted to get people to think about how absolutely horrid the party system is treating our country.

At the same time, there are some things that I said that I stand by: It is still not wise for us to align ourselves with a political party, period. In general, just because we agree with one part of a party's platform does not mean we should automatically agree with the rest of it. Yet that's what frequently happens in two party systems and in particular America -- people align with one party or the other, without many "middle" beliefs and while refusing to understand either side. If you look at the way the parties talk with each other, the interaction between parties is devoid of ALL the fruits of the Spirit. People who call themselves Christians are treating the "other side" as if they are no better than the devil himself. The current political situation is "I'll speak my mind and ignore yours" and that is ENTIRELY unChristlike.

As a result, I personally think that Jesus wouldn't belong to a political party. He'd try to transcend their differences and work with both.

Oh, and the sports thing? You have no idea what division in sports did to the high schools I went to. It was toxic. While a bit of healthy disagreement/competition is okay, the level it degraded to was deplorable. So it is with politics today -- while it is fine to disagree about policies, the level that discussion has degraded to (no more than name calling and finger pointing) is utterly unconscionable. If a man of God can engage in politics without engaging in these things, then he should involve himself in politics. But most men cannot. And if they cannot, they should not.

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In democracy, the guys with the biggest coalitions behind them are the winners. How do you become that guy? You act like a Nice Joe, who knows who to give and receive political favors. It's just basic reciprocity, and if you don't do it, the people who do will beat you. Part of that game involves attacking enemies of your coalition not because there's anything wrong with them from your point of view, but because the guys at your back want you to throw them off a bridge. It's not pleasant, but it's the way power structures like that work, and that's never going to change.

That said, of course Christian who are good at political games should be politicians. But only if they're on my team <3

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Okay, okay, you got me, I was using the verse out of context. xD I just wanted to get people to think about how absolutely horrid the party system is treating our country.

At the same time, there are some things that I said that I stand by: It is still not wise for us to align ourselves with a political party, period. In general, just because we agree with one part of a party's platform does not mean we should automatically agree with the rest of it. Yet that's what frequently happens in two party systems and in particular America -- people align with one party or the other, without many "middle" beliefs and while refusing to understand either side. If you look at the way the parties talk with each other, the interaction between parties is devoid of ALL the fruits of the Spirit. People who call themselves Christians are treating the "other side" as if they are no better than the devil himself. The current political situation is "I'll speak my mind and ignore yours" and that is ENTIRELY unChristlike.

As a result, I personally think that Jesus wouldn't belong to a political party. He'd try to transcend their differences and work with both.

Oh, and the sports thing? You have no idea what division in sports did to the high schools I went to. It was toxic. While a bit of healthy disagreement/competition is okay, the level it degraded to was deplorable. So it is with politics today -- while it is fine to disagree about policies, the level that discussion has degraded to (no more than name calling and finger pointing) is utterly unconscionable. If a man of God can engage in politics without engaging in these things, then he should involve himself in politics. But most men cannot. And if they cannot, they should not.

It seems to me that your problem seems to be with America's 2-party system. Not with political parties/division in general. With that I can agree. The 2-party system in America is dividing us, and does not allow our population to be properly represented in politics. There is nothing wrong with parties, however. People may as well join a party with like-minded principals as them.

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Should men of God indulge in politics?

I think they should not due to the negative exposures involved with it.

What do you think ?

I think it's especially important for men and women of God to be involved with politics.

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The question rather should be: Can "men of god" be involved in politics, and keep their religious biases to a minimum?

Only as long as men who are not of God keep their secular biases to a minimum.

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It seems to me that your problem seems to be with America's 2-party system. Not with political parties/division in general. With that I can agree. The 2-party system in America is dividing us, and does not allow our population to be properly represented in politics.

I disagree. Parliamentary systems with multiple parties aren't really less divided, and people are still bound to large, compromising parties that fail mostly to represent the sum values of any one of their constituents.

Only as long as men who are not of God keep their secular biases to a minimum.

What kind of state is neither secular nor religious...?

It sounds like you're using a different definition of secular than I'm used to--i.e. "neutral in regards to personal values, especially religious values."

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What kind of state is neither secular nor religious...?

I was being a bit facetious. What I was really trying to point out is that people often complain about religious bias while ignoring their own.

It sounds like you're using a different definition of secular than I'm used to--i.e. "neutral in regards to personal values, especially religious values."

"of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests."

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I was being a bit facetious. What I was really trying to point out is that people often complain about religious bias while ignoring their own.

I don't think most people are concerned with religious bias per se. Rather, we don't want religion in the public sphere by any means.

To highlight the difference, I don't want people to begin with an a priori conservative bias in public discussion because that would be unreasonable, but I do want conservative policy.

pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred

Sounds like the government to me <3

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Should men of God indulge in politics?

I think they should not due to the negative exposures involved with it.

What do you think ?

There are consequences for Christians becoming involved with politics and government. Jesus warned against it and NEVER became involved (Mark 8:15). John the Baptist did not follow Christ because he became "offended" that He was not establishing the kingdom for the Jews. He went to Herod and began advise and prepare him to be a ruler of the Jews. Herod was an Edomite (Esau). The Edomites had a long history of opposition to the lineage of Christ. His political party was plotting to kill Jesus! (Matthew 22:15-22, Mark 3:6 and 12:13)

John did not follow Jesus and became involved in politics advising a man who Jesus would not even speak to and helped crucify Him. The results were he lost his great revelation of who Jesus was (John 1:29-34 and Matthew 11:1-6) and lost his head.

When Christians become involved in the uncleanness of office holding and partisan politics they are distracted from what Jesus says we are to be doing. Mark 16:15-18 and living Matthew 5, 6, and 7. They then lose site of the revelation of the Kingdom of God and the heart of Jesus for loving people as He did and does. Who would Jesus call names, or tell lies and half truths about? How can a Christian support war or order those who Jesus died to save to be killed in war?

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There are so many things wrong with what you just said.

There are consequences for Christians becoming involved with politics and government. Jesus warned against it and NEVER became involved (Mark 8:15).

The verse warns specifically against the Pharisees and Herod. It is a logical fallacy to extend it to all politics.

John the Baptist did not follow Christ because he became "offended" that He was not establishing the kingdom for the Jews. He went to Herod and began advise and prepare him to be a ruler of the Jews. Herod was an Edomite (Esau). The Edomites had a long history of opposition to the lineage of Christ. His political party was plotting to kill Jesus! (Matthew 22:15-22, Mark 3:6 and 12:13)

John did not follow Jesus and became involved in politics advising a man who Jesus would not even speak to and helped crucify Him. The results were he lost his great revelation of who Jesus was (John 1:29-34 and Matthew 11:1-6) and lost his head.

I think you made up that entire section (except for the part about the Edomites being enemies of Israel). If you didn't, please show me what Bible passages support any of your theory on John. The only true thing you said is that John lost his head.

When Christians become involved in the uncleanness of office holding and partisan politics they are distracted from what Jesus says we are to be doing. Mark 16:15-18 and living Matthew 5, 6, and 7. They then lose site of the revelation of the Kingdom of God and the heart of Jesus for loving people as He did and does.

You could theoretically say that about any job. What makes politics worse?

Who would Jesus call names, or tell lies and half truths about?

You can be in politics without lying. It just doesn't happen very often, because man is sinful. However, in any job and any situation, lying and name-calling can show up. Again, what makes politics special?

How can a Christian support war or order those who Jesus died to save to be killed in war?

This is an entirely separate debate, but bear in mind that God Himself ordered war for Israel, and war is entirely justified if it is done with the sole purpose of protecting people against violent aggression. Unless you want to tell me that it is better to let armies kill, rape, and enslave innocent people than kill the offending forces?

Christians have to be in politics because it is irresponsible and immoral to allow unbelievers free reign over our societies. When unbelievers hold office, murder runs rampant (consider the Holocaust or abortion). Homosexuality becomes acceptable. Innocent people are taken advantage of and oppressed. Jesus never rebuked anyone for being in politics, but He rebuked politicians for their sins just like ours.

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Does this apply to sports as well? Where you form part of a team and are rivals against another where there is division and strife and you can find yourself rooting for the success of one team and wishing for the failure of the other?

Sports have been perverted by the devil. Winning at any cost, cheating, performance enhancing drugs even in high school, deliberately injuring other players, academic cheating to stay "eligible", and extreme pressure to perform put on the very youngest players are just a few of the issues.

The "pee wee" hockey leagues play nearly as many games as the pros. A Christian should seek Jesus before becoming involved in sports. Besides doing Matthew 10:7-8 and Mark 16:17-18 is fun and well keep one busy.

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