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The word Jew indicates two things: Judaism and a person of Jewish Decent.

I believe I have some background in the latter, but I'm mostly Gentile.

I was clearly talking about Judaism, to draw a parallel to the OP's question. ;)

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Now you do have to believe these things, but what you call yourself, isn't as important as what is really in your heart: "the LORD weighs the hearts" But your religion, your title, just makes it easier for the person you're talking to to understand what you believe quicker. I've seen unsaved Catholics, I've seen saved Agnostics, I've seen unsaved Baptists, and seen, Christians call themselves Atheists. In the end, what you profess to be isn't going to matter, it's what you truly believe that's going to send you to hell, or open the gates of heaven.

You cannot be a Christian and be an atheist at the same time. It is not possible to both profess Jesus Christ as Lord yet deny the existence of God.

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You cannot be a Christian and be an atheist at the same time. It is not possible to both profess Jesus Christ as Lord yet deny the existence of God.

Maybe the "athiests" he spoke of don't know what the word means? P: It can be surprising how ignorant some people are when it comes to what they say they believe in.

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I was clearly talking about Judaism, to draw a parallel to the OP's question. ;)

I think it is possible to be part of the Jewish faith and then find Christ and still identify with Judaism. In fact many Jews who have found Christ don't tend to change much of their religion but it completes their faith as a fulfillment

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No they are not Christians for the Christ they believe in was created, was one of many Christ's, was brother to Satan, was blond haired and blue eyed (yeah. I know.) had three wives on earth and is off ruling a planet with "mother god" (as Mormons call her) having an endless amount of children. This is some weird messiah found ONLY in the book of Mormon, not in the Bible.

So no, they aren't Christians, they are polytheistic pagans.

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tatty00, the fact that you think that you have some divine understanding of who gets saved seems just absurd to me. I understand believing that people get saved or do not, but why do you think that you know who gets saved?

Absurd?

Scripture is pretty clear about how one is redeemed.

Precisely. The Bible makes it clear to us who is and is not saved. I'm not speaking out of divine knowledge, I base all my beliefs of what The word of God says.

1 Corinthians 15:1 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.

Your interpretation is clear to you. I don't doubt that, but many people have many interpretations. Jehovah's Witness (at least some as I only have the ones I've talked to and what I've read about) believe that only 144,000 go to heaven, because of Revelations 7:4. I have a really hard time imagining that only 144,000 people deserve to go to Heaven. I don't even take scripture literally or even believe it to always be divine. There are parts that I know are divine inspired (or at least point to some divine truth), and other parts that to me are clearly false. So I don't think the Bible is very clear on how to be "saved" or "redeemed" unless you believe your interpretation to be the only correct one.

And there you have it. You cannot comment whatsoever on salvation if you simply pick and choose your gospel. But the word of God is clear as crystal on salvation.

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Seeing some of the hateful and judgmental comments to this thread I still stand by my last statement:

I have nothing against them as people, in fact, the few Mormons I have met are nicer people then most Christians
I've only met a few, but every single one of the Mormons I have met are much nicer people then many "true" Christians (Mormons have a reputation for being very polite). Regardless of their beliefs, a lot Christians could take some cues from Mormons on how to be polite, loving, and courteous to others.

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Your interpretation is clear to you. I don't doubt that, but many people have many interpretations. Jehovah's Witness (at least some as I only have the ones I've talked to and what I've read about) believe that only 144,000 go to heaven, because of Revelations 7:4. I have a really hard time imagining that only 144,000 people deserve to go to Heaven. I don't even take scripture literally or even believe it to always be divine. There are parts that I know are divine inspired (or at least point to some divine truth), and other parts that to me are clearly false. So I don't think the Bible is very clear on how to be "saved" or "redeemed" unless you believe your interpretation to be the only correct one.

Truth will prevail; If your interpretation is truly correct, or at least nearest to being correct, it will show itself to be correct. There's a reason those groups that have broken of from orthodoxy are not called cults.

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My guess is that Mormonism is much more similar to Judaism than to Christianity as a Christian primitivist religion. Although, I'm not sure that I know all that much about it. I haven't studied much about nineteenth century American history. :-)

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Seeing some of the hateful and judgmental comments to this thread I still stand by my last statement:

I've only met a few, but every single one of the Mormons I have met are much nicer people then many "true" Christians (Mormons have a reputation for being very polite). Regardless of their beliefs, a lot Christians could take some cues from Mormons on how to be polite, loving, and courteous to others.

I guess citing the South Park diatribe wouldn't win me any brownie points here x.-?

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I guess citing the South Park diatribe wouldn't win me any brownie points here x.-?

Everything I know about Mormonism comes from that episode. Dum dum dum.

Mormons are great. They are always polite, and they do a lot of community service and long-term mission trips. However, without Christ, they're going to hell. Truth is hard to deal with sometimes.

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Mormons are great. They are always polite, and they do a lot of community service and long-term mission trips. However, without Christ, they're going to hell. Truth is hard to deal with sometimes.

Word. My thoughts exactly.

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I feel like it's rather obvious that Mormons are not Christian. I mean, they don't accept the Trinity. They don't accept Classical Christian ideas. You have to cut off the definition of Christian somewhere, and they've fallen into a trap that we were warned against in Galatians 1: 8 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!"

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I think it is possible to be part of the Jewish faith and then find Christ and still identify with Judaism. In fact many Jews who have found Christ don't tend to change much of their religion but it completes their faith as a fulfillment

Again, you misunderstand me. What I meant is, to what extent must two or more specific set of spiritual beliefs be different from one another in order to be considered independent religions and not just denominations of the same religion? Does Christianity have enough different elements to be totally separate from Judaism or is it just a sect within Judaism? (And what are the criteria to determine the required limit of differences anyway??) The same question applies to Christianity (or Judaism?) and Mormonism. A similar debate goes on in the field of linguistics; for example, there's an ongoing discussion about whether Portuguese and Galician are separate languages or the same language, with some scholars defending they possess enough structural differences to be considered different languages and other scholars defending the exact opposite.

Of course, this is all a matter of nomenclature; quite irrelevant to the faith itself.

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Just because they use the same names as Christianity in their stories in no way makes them christian. I think when you change... well, everything, you stop bearing resemblance to that thing you originally deviated from.

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I most certainly don't comment on salvation. I'm just saying that there are people who believe entirely different things about salvation than you and believe that the Bible says that they are right. This is why I say the Bible is unclear on salvation. Many people interpret many passages in many languages differently. It is hardly clear to people who don't have your point of view.

From your point of view, I am probably not saved. I certainly do not believe Christ rose from the dead, so by your view I am going to hell. I think God is good, and to me the idea that God would send me to Hell would make him bad, and because I think God is good (more specifically I feel certain that he is) I know I am not going to Hell (nor do I believe Hell exists in a physical sense, but that's neither here nor there).

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From your point of viewclear.gif, I am probably not saved. I certainly do not believe Christ rose from the dead, so by your view I am going to hell. I think God is good, and to me the idea that God would send me to Hell would make him bad, and because I think God is good (more specifically I feel certain that he is) I know I am not going to Hell (nor do I believe Hell exists in a physical sense, but that's neither here nor there).

SodaCrates, I'd hate to derail this thread, but if you don't believe that Christ rose from the dead, what do you believe? What's the point of Christianity? Because, from what I understood, the whole point of Christianity, the moment in history when it proved itself as a religion, was when Christ rose from the dead. If Christianity is not founded in that Truth the rest of it makes no sense. The Bible attests to this. Tradition attests to this. Christ himself attests to this. I don't understand how you can accept Christianity, but accept the resurrection.

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From your point of view, I am probably not saved. I certainly do not believe Christ rose from the dead, so by your view I am going to hell. I think God is good, and to me the idea that God would send me to Hell would make him bad, and because I think God is good (more specifically I feel certain that he is) I know I am not going to Hell (nor do I believe Hell exists in a physical sense, but that's neither here nor there).

Your views are based off poor theology. To say God is bad for sending someone to Hell is a misunderstanding of the very character of God, namely His justice. Also, to deny the resurrection of Christ is to reduce Christianity to mere morality and makes it utterly pointless. If Christ has not truly risen from the dead, our faith is in vain. We are the most pitiable people.

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I think God is good, and to me the idea that God would send me to Hell would make him bad, and because I think God is good (more specifically I feel certain that he is) I know I am not going to Hell (nor do I believe Hell exists in a physical sense, but that's neither here nor there).

I don't think God "sends" anyone to hell because hell is a state of being, not a physical place. God is not some evil dictator happily waiting to cast the next filthy rotten sinner into a fiery pit of burning sulfur like many people today make Him out to be.

Those who reject God's love will suffer in His presence because of that love that they despise so much being poured out on them. They will be in agony. They will be "in" hell. Those who accept God's love will forever enjoy His presence because of their love for Him. They will be "in" paradise.

This was the view of the early church and it's still the view of the Orthodox Church.

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i have been part of a group study about what Mormon's believe and I will go ahead and say that I do not believe that they are Christians. It is amazing how much they have straight up twisted Scripture to suit their beliefs. Not only that, a vast majority of their own doctrine conrtadicts itself.

They believe that God was a man. Their favorite slogan is, "as God once was, man is, as God is now, man can become." They believe that is was a GOOD thing that Adam and Eve sinned in the garden. They teach their followers that sinning was the only way that Adam and Eve could have children and then go on to make righteous decisions.

They are fuzzy as to how Jesus was born. Some teach that God the father (or Elohim, which they have incorrectly named Heavenly Father. "Elohim" is a title, not a name. A title that is sometimes used to denote false gods, but I digress...) actually came down and had a physical relationship with Mary in order to produce Jesus. When questioned about the prophecy about Jesus was to be born of a virgin, some teach that it was artifical insemination of some kind but insist that it was somehow connected to their Elohim. They completely ignore the fact that Scripture says that Jesus was with child by the Holy Spirit.

They believe that you have to be married in the temple to be allowed into the highest level of heaven and completely ignore the Scripture that says that it is better for you not to marry.

The biggest issue is that they believe that they can be gods. This is Satan's sin. The biggest lie in the book, and they believe it.

NONE of their stories written within their Scripture (the Book of Mormon, The pearl of Great Price, and the Doctrines and Covenants) are backed up with ANY physical evidence. All fo the places mentioned, the coinage talked about, the animals, or anything else for that matter, is backed up with any evidence.

As far as I am aware, the Bible is very much backed up with physical evidence. They claim that they believe in the Bible, "as long as it is translated correctly." They will tell you that it is full of errors and that it was corrupted. Their claim that the Book of Mormon is the Gospel in its fullness.

Joseph Smith's account of his vision changed multiple times. He changed his age, who he saw, and the message.

Their doctrine has changed several times over the years. They did once believe in the trinity, but somehow that belief was changed. A lot of their doctrines do not line up with their Scripture.

And don't even get me started with all of the crazy symbols/rituals them have in their temple. I will say one thing about their temple that is interesting. They have an alter and on it is Cain's offering to God. You know, the one that God rejected! This is in their temple. .

There are so many errors in their theology, it would take a looooong time to point them out.

The more I learn about this religion, the more sad I am for all those who have been duped by it.

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I feel like it's rather obvious that Mormons are not Christian. I mean, they don't accept the Trinity. They don't accept Classical Christian ideas. You have to cut off the definition of Christian somewhere, and they've fallen into a trap that we were warned against in Galatians 1: 8 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!"

Mormons are great. They are always polite, and they do a lot of community service and long-term mission trips. However, without Christ, they're going to hell. Truth is hard to deal with sometimes.

Good statements all around. The answer to the original question is quite simple and is indeed black and white. That said, Mormonism was never at any point in its history a sect of Christianity. Since the beginning cultic rituals and Masonic beliefs had some of greatest influences on Mormonism. The greatest assault against God and His word comes with the belief that they can become a god and rule their own universe. Satan fell because of this very thing.

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I think God is good, and to me the idea that God would send me to Hell would make him bad.

God does not send anyone to Hell (excluding Satan). They send themselves there, by not believing in the name of Jesus.

It's as simple as that.

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Yes, yes, I'm on a thread making rampage this evening, but I've decided to grab curiosity by the horns and get my questions answered. I'm curious to see CTF's answer to this.

Are Mormons Christians?

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No; and it is not anti-Mormon bigotry to say so, it's just the truth. They don't believe in the trinity which means they have an entirely different conception of God, and more to the point, they don't believe Jesus is God. How can anyone claim to be Christian without at least believing Jesus is God? Even Muslims believe in Jesus to an extent, as a prophet and as the Messiah but we do not call them Christians because among their other beliefs they deny that Jesus is God just as Mormons deny that Jesus is God. This alone is antithetical to being Christian.

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Mormons don't believe in the trinity. The trinity is the center off all Christian faith; without it, you aren't Christian. In addition to this, they also believe Christ is a created being (as in, there was a time when Christ did not exist). They also believe in something called exaltation, which says that eventually all Mormons will reach the same status as Christ, they themselves will be Gods. *This is a serious theological problem.

Mormonism has roots in Christianity, but it diverged from the true faith. *Sort of similar to Jehovah's Witness's or Quaker Friends.

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