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Guest TheNewBreed

Is It Alright To Want To Go To Hell?

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Guest TheNewBreed

I guess, I already know the answer to the question in the title. Of course it's not alright. So I guess my real question is, how can you want to go to Heaven knowing all that you've done against Christ? Knowing that He'll just forgive every thorn you drove into His forehead, knowing every chunk of flesh you ripped off His back, how can someone want to go to Heaven and not suffer for it? Everyone I know says this is sick, though I almost want to go to Hell just to punish myself cause it looks like God won't do it for me. He chose to die for our sin because He loved us, so if we choose not to accept His forgiveness is that selfishness or selflessness?

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Well think of it this way. If Jesus died for you and only you and you didn't accept His salvation because His death was your fault, wouldn't that mean that Jesus suffered and died for nothing?

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You could also ask the question: How could you not want to go to heaven and be with God forever and instead reject his love, when he loves us so much and suffered so much so that we could be with him forever? God wants us to go to heaven. Not accepting God's forgiveness means that the thorns driven into his head, etc his suffering, and death were for nothing. It would mean going against him, after all he has done. God longs to forgive us. We don't deserve it, but he wants to forgive us anyway, because that is how much he loves us. So we should love him back, and accept this forgiveness :)

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Think of it this way. God deserves to be worshipped, and Jesus Christ deserves to be trusted in. It would be to do another thing against God not to worship Him, and another thing about God not to trust in Jesus Christ.

To reject Christ in selfish - it is to assert your own authority, rather than submit to his Lordship. The later is humility, that simply to the cross you cling, bringing nothing of yourself.

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I guess, I already know the answer to the question in the title. Of course it's not alright. So I guess my real question is, how can you want to go to Heaven knowing all that you've done against Christ? Knowing that He'll just forgive every thorn you drove into His forehead, knowing every chunk of flesh you ripped off His back, how can someone want to go to Heaven and not suffer for it? Everyone I know says this is sick, though I almost want to go to Hell just to punish myself cause it looks like God won't do it for me. He chose to die for our sin because He loved us, so if we choose not to accept His forgiveness is that selfishness or selflessness?

I don't think you're sick. Honestly, this is one of the major reasons I'm Catholic. Although, we wouldn't call it suffering to get into heaven, we would call it penance. Penance is our human way of coming to terms with our sin. it is us doing something, be it prayer, fasting, abstinence of some sort, or good works, to try to make ourselves right with God. It's an conscience act and steps made to try to align ourselves with God's Will.

You see, if Scripture teaches us anything, being a Christian is not easy. It means always giving of self, sacrificing of self, taking the hard road. We're not called to set up pretty little lives where all we do is live in pretty little houses and watch TV all day. We're called to service and sacrifice and love, truly love. This life we are called to take on is the path to heaven. You see, it's not just about you accepting the forgiveness of God and continuing your life. It's about conforming your life to the Will of God. It is about having God be the center of your life, the goal of your heart. It takes total destruction of human self and complete rebuilding of your will and life to truly accept the forgiveness of God. It is a hard rough road that will involve suffering, denial of self, and work.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't avoid Chris and God because you think you're getting off easy for your sins. You're not. What you're being called to is a life full of suffering, a life full of sacrifice, a life full of Joy in the Father. You can avoid Christ's forgiveness, but that would be taking the easy way out.

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Guest TheNewBreed
wouldn't that mean that Jesus suffered and died for nothing?
Not accepting God's forgiveness means that the thorns driven into his head, etc his suffering, and death were for nothing

I've thought of this before, but despite this I never asked Him to die for me. That was His choice. Also, He can forgive me but that doesn't mean I have the magical power everyone else seems to have to forgive myself. How do you guys do it??

To reject Christ in selfish - it is to assert your own authority, rather than submit to his Lordship. The later is humility, that simply to the cross you cling, bringing nothing of yourself.

Yeah, but the humility is a worse suffering than anything else for me. When I first was saved about a year ago I didn't ask for Him to forgive my sins for months because I couldn't handle it. Taking up the cross doesn't hurt nearly as much as knowing I took a free ride off the blood of my perfect Master and Creator.

God defines in the Bible us going to Hell as "justice," so why is going by choice such a bad thing?

what I'm trying to say is, don't avoid Chris and God because you think you're getting off easy for your sins. You're not. What you're being called to is a life full of suffering, a life full of sacrifice, a life full of Joy in the Father. You can avoid Christ's forgiveness, but that would be taking the easy way out.

I don't exactly agree with a lot of the idea of "penance," but I guess you're right. It would be taking the easy way out to avoid His forgiveness on earth, but I think it would be agreeably much harder in the End

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If an infinitely just God can forgive you, there is no reason why a person could not.

God defines in the Bible us going to Hell as "justice," so why is going by choice such a bad thing?

You are quite correct that hell is justice. It is not a bad [meaning sinful] thing that God will send people to hell for their sins. The reason why it is a bad thing is that it involves disobedience to God - rejecting salvation in His Son.

For those who have been saved, we ought to strive to serve God as He deserves and in gratude for the saving work of the Son.

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I've thought of this before, but despite this I never asked Him to die for me. That was His choice. Also, He can forgive me but that doesn't mean I have the magical power everyone else seems to have to forgive myself. How do you guys do it??

Because you're right, it was His choice. The God of all the Universe openly and willingly forgave you. God gave His only Son for you. Put aside the guilt. God has already forgiven you; it is finished. If your Creator can forgive you for your sins, surely you can forgive yourself for them. I know its hard to think about, especially when you develop an intimate relationship with Christ. But the bottom line is this: Do you want to know God and shine His light? If so, then He has forgiven you and all you have to do is accept His forgiveness.

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Guest TheNewBreed
Because you're right, it was His choice. The God of all the Universe openly and willingly forgave you. God gave His only Son for you. Put aside the guilt. God has already forgiven you; it is finished. If your Creator can forgive you for your sins, surely you can forgive yourself for them. I know its hard to think about, especially when you develop an intimate relationship with Christ. But the bottom line is this: Do you want to know God and shine His light? If so, then He has forgiven you and all you have to do is accept His forgiveness.

It's still hard for me, though I guess it wouldn't hurt to try. Thank you

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God defines in the Bible us going to Hell as "justice," so why is going by choice such a bad thing?

God doesn't want us to go to hell- so in that sense it is bad.

Of course, he respects our freedom, which is why he allows us to choose hell- to freely choose to either love or reject him.

I've thought of this before, but despite this I never asked Him to die for me. That was His choice. Also, He can forgive me but that doesn't mean I have the magical power everyone else seems to have to forgive myself. How do you guys do it??

Do you believe that God forgives you though?

If you do, then remind yourself, -- if God can forgive me, who am I to not forgive myself ? Are my standards higher than God's? Am I greater than he is?

If you don't, think again about what he did for us- not so that we would dwell in guilt, but so that we could be reconciled with him.

I totally can relate to dwelling in guilt. But feelings are just that- feelings- and the fact remains that God has already forgiven me, so it would just be prideful of me to reject it. I don't have any special powers, but God does, so I pray and ask him to help me forgive myself.

Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death- 2 Cor 7:10

It is normal to feel guilty- that is the first step, but it should lead to repentance and accepting God's forgiveness.

It doesn't stop there though- after I accept his forgiveness, then I have the freedom instead to focus on turning away from my sins, doing penance, and growing closer to him- we can do these things not to become forgiven, but because we now we are forgiven we can allow God to change our lives.

Without accepting God's forgiveness though, feelings of guilt don't lead to anything good... and they are not from God.

I hope this made sense. I know it's hard- I'll be praying for you =)

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Guest TheNewBreed
God doesn't want us to go to hell- so in that sense it is bad.

Of course, he respects our freedom, which is why he allows us to choose hell- to freely choose to either love or reject him.

Do you believe that God forgives you though?

If you do, then remind yourself, -- if God can forgive me, who am I to not forgive myself ? Are my standards higher than God's? Am I greater than he is?

If you don't, think again about what he did for us- not so that we would dwell in guilt, but so that we could be reconciled with him.

I totally can relate to dwelling in guilt. But feelings are just that- feelings- and the fact remains that God has already forgiven me, so it would just be prideful of me to reject it. I don't have any special powers, but God does, so I pray and ask him to help me forgive myself.

Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death- 2 Cor 7:10

It is normal to feel guilty- that is the first step, but it should lead to repentance and accepting God's forgiveness.

It doesn't stop there though- after I accept his forgiveness, then I have the freedom instead to focus on turning away from my sins, doing penance, and growing closer to him- we can do these things not to become forgiven, but because we now we are forgiven we can allow God to change our lives.

Without accepting God's forgiveness though, feelings of guilt don't lead to anything good... and they are not from God.

I hope this made sense. I know it's hard- I'll be praying for you =)

It did, thank you

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Guest TheNewBreed

It did. I studied the Bible for a long time in West Hills. CS Lewis defined "the Ultimate Sin" as not forgiving yourself once forgiven by God. That really struck me. I did a lot of thinking and really turned my thinking around. Now that I'm out of my depression I see how foolish I was in asking this in the first place. Thank you all for your replies

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It did. I studied the Bible for a long time in West Hills. CS Lewis defined "the Ultimate Sin" as not forgiving yourself once forgiven by God. That really struck me. I did a lot of thinking and really turned my thinking around. Now that I'm out of my depression I see how foolish I was in asking this in the first place. Thank you all for your replies

Even though I didn't reply which was probably not cool of me considering it's my "job", I'm still really glad that you are out of your depression.

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I guess, I already know the answer to the question in the title. Of course it's not alright. So I guess my real question is, how can you want to go to Heaven knowing all that you've done against Christ? Knowing that He'll just forgive every thorn you drove into His forehead, knowing every chunk of flesh you ripped off His back, how can someone want to go to Heaven and not suffer for it? Everyone I know says this is sick, though I almost want to go to Hell just to punish myself cause it looks like God won't do it for me. He chose to die for our sin because He loved us, so if we choose not to accept His forgiveness is that selfishness or selflessness?
I do not think this question is coherent, because as a Roman Catholic I do not believe that Heaven is so much a place as it is a State of Holiness. I think the question only makes sense within a Protestant context, where getting into heaven is sort of like passing a citizenship test. I think that is a completely wrong way to think about heaven. This is why Jesus says in John 3:13 that even though He came down from heaven, He is also in Heaven. Jesus took on incorruptibility, but He is Holy and Heaven.

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Luke 18:10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

You realize you're a sinner and you are unworthy of Heaven. We are all unworthy of Heaven, so when you acknowledge such a fact it is pleasing to God.

Perhaps it might help you if you continue in your realization that you're unworthy of Heaven and deserve Hell (as do the rest of us) but your Faith in Jesus Christ will still save you.

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Guest TheNewBreed
I do not think this question is coherent, because as a Roman Catholic I do not believe that Heaven is so much a place as it is a State of Holiness. I think the question only makes sense within a Protestant context, where getting into heaven is sort of like passing a citizenship test. I think that is a completely wrong way to think about heaven. This is why Jesus says in John 3:13 that even though He came down from heaven, He is also in Heaven. Jesus took on incorruptibility, but He is Holy and Heaven.

I don't believe in the fallacy that is a belief in a "citizenship test." I know we are all equal sinners and we are only judged on whether we're saved or not, not how much a pot can swear a different kettle is blacker (if you get the metaphor). I understood this going into my question

Luke 18:10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

You realize you're a sinner and you are unworthy of Heaven. We are all unworthy of Heaven, so when you acknowledge such a fact it is pleasing to God.

Perhaps it might help you if you continue in your realization that you're unworthy of Heaven and deserve Hell (as do the rest of us) but your Faith in Jesus Christ will still save you.

I know I am saved despite my sin and "We all fall short of the glory of God." That was not the main point to my question.

Thanks for the responses, this thread can be locked now

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