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FYI Teenage Girls

29 posts in this topic

So if you have a bunch of Christian friends on facebook like I do, you've no doubt seen this article making it's rounds lately:

http://givenbreath.com/2013/09/03/fyi-if-youre-a-teenage-girl/

It's getting a lot of viral press right now. After reading the article, and if you read any of the comments you'll know that it's controversial. One of my other friends posted a link to this response:

http://jezebel.com/concerned-mom-slutty-girls-selfies-are-tempting-my-pe-1251831479

I'm not advocating either argument, but I do appreciate the fact that there was a response that went immediately where I did. The beach photos in the blog! Here's my thinking: If you take your kids to the beach, they're gonna see slutty girls. Girls in bikinis, girls making out with boys, etc... If you care *that* much about what your kids see, why are you taking them to the number one place for immodesty?

Also - girls are susceptible to half naked boys when it comes to sexual temptation. I kinda wanna scream foul and have her practice what she preaches.

So, thoughts?

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Christian boys should be able to overcome temptation through the power of the Holy Spirit. But if they can't life continues. and vice versa.

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I'm tired of this whole spiel of mothers trying to sanctify other girls instagram accounts. Maybe they should teach their boys to not linger over their photos, rather than to pass judgement on a girl that they most likely have never met.

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I agree that boy's should be able to overcome temptation with the God's strength. But I actually have an issue with how Katie titled her blog/topic thing. She said and I quote from the title 'Your tempting my perfect sons'. It's just plain dumb, Jesus was the only perfect son/person that ever walked the face of earth, and to say that your sons are perfect is to then say that they are equal to Jesus, but in fact they are not. Also, since she put in that she has 'perfect sons' she is basically blaming the girls wholly for being the ones who are in the wrong, but they are not. If her sons are lingering on these photos then they too are in the wrong and not the perfect sons she claims to have.

Now as I said before, I do believe Christian young men should be able to over come temptation with the help of God. But it's not easy, I've struggled with lust and other similar temptations for years and years, and I most likely am going to keep struggling with them until I die. But if I keep relying on God's help then I will be able to overcome these sins. But now that I said that I want to go back to the article, Katie's (the article author) sons are just like me, sinners. So I know they will struggle with these lustful temptations just like I am and have, but I also know that those boys and all boys can overcome their temptations.

Ok, thats my 2 cents on the topic. Let's see if others actually understand what I'm saying...

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I'm tired of this whole spiel of mothers trying to sanctify other girls instagram accounts. Maybe they should teach their boys to not linger over their photos, rather than to pass judgement on a girl that they most likely have never met.

Oh, this makes me smile.

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"For one, it appears you're not wearing a bra."

Didn't realise it was the worst crime to not wear a bra. Oops, I've befouled that rule. Also, since when have pyjamas been classed as sexy? News flash: the vast majority of teenage girls wear ugly t shirts to bed that are about 9 sizes too big. Ain't nothing sexy about that.

She needs to educate her children properly about feelings and objectification. She also needs to take down the half-nude photos of her boys (and her daughter, that child can't be older than nine; shouldn't be posting that on a publicly-accessible site) to remove the blatant hypocrisy. Tut tut.

Also, why are they collectively FAcebook stalking? Anyone else find that creepy?

Oh, and I don't understand why wearing a bikini makes someone a "****"? I'm actually pretty appalled that people are using that word, to be fair.

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I was kind of put off by that article as well. I've made a point of *not* arguing with Christian Facebook posts lately but I was sorely tempted to post something tongue and cheek. I'm not the kind of person to blame my failings on other people and it irks me that others would do so.

I kinda liked this one. Though, I think it's a conversation to be had with daughters as well : Click Me!

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Is a bra-less female who is wearing a T-shirt so you can't really see anything really attractive to males?

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I'm tired of this whole spiel of mothers trying to sanctify other girls instagram accounts. Maybe they should teach their boys to not linger over their photos, rather than to pass judgement on a girl that they most likely have never met.

Yes. You win an ice cream cone. :3

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Didn't realise it was the worst crime to not wear a bra. Oops, I've befouled that rule.

That's ok Katy, I rarely wear a bra.

Yeah, the pictures in the post was the thing that made me mad. I'm sure she could have thought the photo selection out just a wee bit more.

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Is a bra-less female who is wearing a T-shirt so you can't really see anything really attractive to males?

No. In my experience, if the t-shirt isn't see-through than it is not a problem at all.

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No. In my experience, if the t-shirt isn't see-through than it is not a problem at all.

That's what I was thinking, like the only difference besides the ability to maybe see nipples would be sag, but if you can't see the nipples, I can't imagine sag being appealing and causing a guy to lust, but then again, my talking about this might cause a guy to lust, so... Maybe I should stop.

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Girls in t-shirts can be very sexy, but then again, I am a male who finds girls that aren't so obvious to be sexy. Looking trashy is not a turn on and sometimes less skin is sexier than more.

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Darn it Chad. You've filled my world with not one, but two really unpleasant articles full of bad ideas :C

The Christian mom takes that really destructive attitude that boys are lust-machines without self control who have to be crushed under the authoritarian weight of a monk-like asceticism. But that just buries the problem under layers of repression and denial that never really translate to self-mastery in a world of lusty women who will, someday, break through the defenses.

But that's not why it's unpleasant. She's just smug. Full of herself. She has to take this pretentious I AM A GOOD CHRISTIAN (UNLIKE YOU) AND A COOL MOM tact, so contemptuous and sneering about the dirty morals of everyone who isn't her. I can't stand her. Poke her with a fork.

The self-proclaimed Jezebel, on the other hand, turns the whole thing into a prolonged rant about how people are entirely self-responsible beings, and that parental guidance and social pressure are never legitimate in any way ever because YOU'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS (not the circumstances you happened to be born into, like poverty or violence or crushing patriarchal norms-ohwait). The kind of norms that inform a household are important for socializing kids and deciding the kinds of people they'll eventually be! You can't just tell kids "women aren't objects (even though our society totally makes them out to be)" and expect them to imbibe that message noddingly. You have to train them, prepare them, instill an idea of morality. Sure, the shirtless boys thing is hypocritical, but that's beside the point, darn it.

But that's not why it's unpleasant. She's just smug. Full of herself. She has to wave the WE ARE ENLIGHTENED FEMINISTS (UNLIKE YOU) AND WE'RE SUPER CLEVER AND FUNNY flag, so contemptuous and sneering about "biblical brainwashing." I can't stand her. Poke her with a fork.

GRRRR.

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The Christian mom takes that really destructive attitude that boys are lust-machines without self control who have to be crushed under the authoritarian weight of a monk-like asceticism. But that just buries the problem under layers of repression and denial that never really translate to self-mastery in a world of lusty women who will, someday, break through the defenses.
For me, this is a crucial point that I am glad you brought to the forefront. As long as we truly believe that the pleasures licentiousness offer are rewarding, we are bound to transgress. When I was a teenager, I believed that the boorish sort of raw sexuality was the good. Yet, as I grew older and wiser, I began to understand differently. What has allowed me to control my sexuality was the realization that I do not want cheap sex. I do not desire the Jezebel. Sex without love is quite meaningless. It is just a drug with some really bad side-effects. I desire someone to share my soul with. And it is that mixture of self-mastery and self-control that has allowed me to overcome certain inadequacies in my own life. You see, when we create a taboo without a strong justification we are doomed. If we desire cheap sex, then we are bound to offend. That is why I think we need a certain level of self-mastery to effectively enact self-control. We can never fully overcome the temptation, because let's face it, baser pleasures always appeal to our illogical Id, but we can integrate a higher set of values in the core of our being that will help fight against hedonism.

I am merely reiterating what Aristotle wrote over two thousand years ago in his Nicomachean Ethics (which I hope you were thinking when you mentioned self-mastery), but it is as true today as it was two millennia in antiquity.

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The self-proclaimed Jezebel, on the other hand, turns the whole thing into a prolonged rant about how people are entirely self-responsible beings, and that parental guidance and social pressure are never legitimate in any way ever because

But that's not why it's unpleasant. She's just smug. Full of herself. She has to wave the WE ARE ENLIGHTENED FEMINISTS (UNLIKE YOU) AND WE'RE SUPER CLEVER AND FUNNY flag, so contemptuous and sneering about "biblical brainwashing." I can't stand her. Poke her with a fork.

GRRRR.

As a feminist, Jezebel is trash :(

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Jezebel is ridiculous, and the epitome of the White Feminist. They tend to ignore women of color, and seem to think female-on-male domestic abuse is a joke. I personally want nothing to do with them.

This woman's writing, however, makes me sick. Because, to be frank, it smacks of the kind of sexism that causes rape culture.

Rape culture is a huge feminist issue in America. Frankly, I think it's more important than the wage gap. And this post sort of struck me as planting the seeds of it.

A part of rape culture is victim blaming. In the case of male-on-female rape, the guilt is often shifted to the woman. You were drunk, you were out alone, you were wearing a short skirt. Maybe you shouldn't have done that. A woman doesn't even need to be particularly sexual. She just needs to be there, in the area, because women are sexualized from the get-go. You were wearing shorts and a tank top? Well, what were you expecting to happen?

This mother shifts the blame from her (allegedly) leery sons to the girl posting the photo. It doesn't matter if the girl posted it trying to be sexy; she's not forcing the boy to look at it. She's not slamming it in his face and forcing his eyelids open ala Clockwork Orange. But it's still the girl's fault. She's tempting them, these poor, pure boys, with her PJs and bra-less comfort and pouty lips. Her sons are helpless against the onslaught of arched backs and playful looks.

This aspect of rape culture is, or rather should be, considered wildly insulting to men, because it assumes that men are mindless lust machines who are incapable of seeing a woman as anything more than a playboy bunny if the slightest hint of skin is shown. But the patriarchy rarely sees it this way.

It starts young, my friends. It starts young. Women are sexualized before they're even pubescent, but if they act the way the media and culture says they should, they're insulted and demeaned from now till doomsday. But go ahead and try to be a virgin; they'll rake you across the coals for being a prude, though only when they want to sleep with you. Otherwise, you're hailed as some pure object instead of a person.

The Western view of women and female sexuality is ridiculous.

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I disagree with the fact that the woman thinks it's okay for her sons (or any male, for that matter), but then criticizes girls. That's the only problem I have with this.

I'm going to have to disagree with a lot of the posters here. I have male friends who find the 'natural' shape of the breast to be very attractive and they do tend to think sexual when they see said shape. It just opens a door that we shouldn't even begin to go down. I don't understand why girls take pictures without wearing a bra anyway. It would make me very self conscious, personally. Even excluding that, why would a girl take a picture braless unless she was wanting to draw attention to herself? Think about it. I don't know anyone who 'accidentally' takes a picture. They do so on purpose. And girls tend to think about what they are wearing/how they look before they take a picture. Rarely will you find a picture that a girl doesn't preplan to make sure she looks good. It would take, what, 30 seconds to put a bra on? This leads me to think that not wearing one while taking a picture is done for a reason. And this is coming from a girl. I think it's trashy, personally.

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I agree with SavedByTheSon

 

While I didn't see the original post with the pics of shirtless guys, hearing you all talk about it does leave a very hypocritical impression of the author. 

However, I can see her point.  It's not the fact that girls are taking pictures of themselves in their pajamas...it's not the fact that girls are taking pictures of themselves braless.  It's the intention behind why they did that, given the description of their pose by the author, caught my attention and makes me want to agree with her point.

...Wow – you sure took a bunch of selfies in your skimpy pj’s this summer!...I think the boys notice other things. For one, it appears that you are not wearing a bra.  I get it – you’re in your room, so you’re heading to bed, right? But then I can’t help but notice the red carpet pose, the extra-arched back, and the sultry pout.  What’s up? None of these positions is one I naturally assume before sleep, this I know.

So, if ^ this really is what those girls were doing, then it seems to me their sole intention was to look a certain way, which just happens to be on the lower end of the moral spectrum.

Someone mentioned that girls sleep in baggy t-shirts.  That doesn't seem to be the case in these particular photos the author was talking about, seeing as she specificically said "skimpy pj's".  Which I suppose could define a lot of different things for different people, but yeah, I don't get the impression of "baggy t-shirt" by that description.

Secondly, you have to ask "Why are these girls posting pics like this on the internet where others, both girls and guys, can see?"  As SavedByTheSon mentioned, you don't typically take a picture on accident, and even if you did, they don't accidentally get uploaded to your social accounts.  There was a specific reason why these girls did this, and I don't see anything wrong with the author letting them know it's not cool.

 

Yes, I believe girls should not flaunt themselves or their bodies around the way a lot of girls do (notice I did not in any way say "all" girls do).  Not just for the sake of guys, but also for the sake of other girls.  We humans seem to be "monkey-see-monkey-do" creatures, especially if it attracts popularity or acceptance from others.  And our society today seems to advertise that you have to look "sexy" and show off as much skin as possible to be cool.  Not sure why else fashion styles, media, games, and other things encourage the kinds of things they do for both girls AND guys (such as low cut, cleavage-showing blouses on girls, and shirtless muscle on guys).

And the same goes for guys, too.  They don't need to be flaunting shirtless torsos around trying to attract attention.

Am I railing on the innocent action of taking your shirt off, or wearing something that someone else may deem immodest?  No!  Not at all!  What I am hitting is the intention behind the action.

 

As for the "you're responsible for yourselves" position, yes I think that's the case as well.  While it's courteous to watch what we do so as not to intentionally offend or cause others to stumble (in all aspects of life, not just the sexual aspect), fact is it's gonna happen!  That doesn't give any of us, regardless of gender, to say "Oh well, not my fault.  So-and-so made me do it."  We should be responsible enough to know what we should and shouldn't be doing as Christians reflecting Christ's character in our lives.

Again, am I saying that accidently stumbling across a sexually explicit picture is a sin?  No.  It happens to all of us.  However, choosing to linger and stare is wrong.

"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." ~Matthew 5:28

And I personally believe this goes both ways, girls.  It's just as wrong for you to look at a guy with lust.

 

I've heard some of you state that God created us sexual.  Yes, He did.  But He did not create us to share sex with just anyone and everyone.  Rather, He created sex as a special gift to marriage.  Not something to be flaunted around in a very low moral way through images and even actions.

 

And one final note:

Also, why are they collectively FAcebook stalking? Anyone else find that creepy?

I don't find a close-knit family keeping all online activity in the open as "creepy".  In fact, my own family does that.  Perhaps not to this extent (primarily becaues I don't have facebook or other social network accounts like that), but both of my parents are interested in what I do online, the kinds of things I view and participate in, etc.

I personally think it helps keep the child/teen/whoever a little more accountable.  Not that I or anyone else is going to try to sneak in some inappropriate content, but that knowing your parents and family are in on it all helps keep temptation away or at least reduced.  After all, none of us are temptation free.

 

I'm sure very few here agree with me, and that's ok.  I'm just stating my personal beliefs, seeing as very few seem to have voiced the opinions I hold.

Edited by blackbear4110

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Maybe I'm the only one, but the argument that girls should dress modestly "so guys dont stumble" has always bothered me. Maybe this will make zero sense for you, but in my head we shouldn't tell people to do stuff for other people, girls (and guys) should take actions to please the Lord, not some kid's crazy facebook stalking mother. Likewise, its just as important to teach guys (and girls) how to respond to these situations, because like it or not we are in the world. It's not a christian's place to judge first, but love first. In fact, I don't feel like this woman's actions spoke very highly of her or her confidence in her son's ability to put their faith and judgement into action.

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And one final note:

I don't find a close-knit family keeping all online activity in the open as "creepy".  In fact, my own family does that.  Perhaps not to this extent (primarily becaues I don't have facebook or other social network accounts like that), but both of my parents are interested in what I do online, the kinds of things I view and participate in, etc.

I personally think it helps keep the child/teen/whoever a little more accountable.  Not that I or anyone else is going to try to sneak in some inappropriate content, but that knowing your parents and family are in on it all helps keep temptation away or at least reduced.  After all, none of us are temptation free.

 

My family is very close; I share everything and anything with them. But, we don't sit round at the kitchen table, flicking through my friends' Facebook photos, judging each one. That, I find weird. 

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