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Do you Believe Catholics are Christians??

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I heard that Catholics pray to God via the saints because they, for whatever reason, feel they cannot pray to God himself... This completely defeats the whole purpose of Christianity. God sent his Son to die for us to bridge the gap between us and God so that we could be near him again. Why then should we not pray to God himself??? This doesn't make sense.

Can someone explain?

 

Catholics believe you can talk to God directly, and they do so. They also pray to the saints, not as though they are mediators between God and man, or as though they have special powers, but as you would ask a friend to pray for you. When a Catholic prays to Saint John, it's supposedly much like you asking your buddy John to pray for you.

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Guest Mike Spero

Yep. Though I'm very outspoken about my disagreements with Catholicism, they still believe in and worship the same great God as you or I do. Asking if Catholics are "Christians" (meaning: "Of Christ"), simply because their worship and tradition differs from what has been deemed standard "Christianity" (AKA: Protestantism), is simply ludicrous. That's like asking if a Believer in Jesus is really a Christian because he/she may go to church at a night service on Saturday rather than Sunday (not that church attendance is at all mandatory for Salvation, just making a metaphor). Whether you disagree with their tradition or not (which as many know, I STRONGLY disagree), if they're following and walking with Jesus Christ of Nazareth, what right does anyone have to deny that they are "Christian" or "of Christ" and any better or worse than the rest of His followers?

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This is a very popular Catholic prayer, said at the end of every rosary:

 

Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy, hail, our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve: to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus, O merciful, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary! Amen.

 

The saints aren't God, but they aren't your buddy John either. They're humanity in perfection, and the relationship between a living Catholic and a saint involves a great deal of reverence. 

Edited by Yves

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This is a very popular Catholic prayer, said at the end of every rosary:

 

Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy, hail, our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve: to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus, O merciful, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary! Amen.

 

The saints aren't God, but they aren't your buddy John either. They're humanity in perfection, and the relationship between a living Catholic and a saint involves a great deal of reverence. 

 

While it is not stressed as in the Eastern Church, the Roman Church has always maintained the original belief of theosis. The saints are partakers of God's Divine Nature. I believe it was St. Irenaeus who said that even if the Fall had not occurred, the Incarnation would still have been necessary. Adam and Eve were not humanity in perfection. They were more akin to children. St. Aquinas writes, "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods." The tree of life (the final symbol of divinity) was not consumed by Adam and Eve. It was not made a part of their nature. The Saints in Heaven, the Church Triumphant, are deified gods. They are not God Himself, but they are deified.

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While it is not stressed as in the Eastern Church, the Roman Church has always maintained the original belief of theosis. The saints are partakers of God's Divine Nature. I believe it was St. Irenaeus who said that even if the Fall had not occurred, the Incarnation would still have been necessary. Adam and Eve were not humanity in perfection. They were more akin to children. St. Aquinas writes, "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods." The tree of life (the final symbol of divinity) was not consumed by Adam and Eve. It was not made a part of their nature. The Saints in Heaven, the Church Triumphant, are deified gods. They are not God Himself, but they are deified.

Where would one find in Scripture that man becomes deified? It would seem to conflict with the notion that there are no other gods save Yahweh.

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Where would one find in Scripture that man becomes deified? It would seem to conflict with the notion that there are no other gods save Yahweh.

 

*poke* :D I MISSSED YOOOOOOUUUU (even though we're facebook friends and I could have literally just messaged you but whatevs)

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I heard that Catholics pray to God via the saints because they, for whatever reason, feel they cannot pray to God himself... This completely defeats the whole purpose of Christianity. God sent his Son to die for us to bridge the gap between us and God so that we could be near him again. Why then should we not pray to God himself??? This doesn't make sense.

Can someone explain?

 

We ask for them to pray for us for the same reason I would ask you to pray for me.

 

We can go straight to God. 

 

Whoever told you that is wrong. 

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Catholics don't pray to saints

*blinks* What do you mean Catholics don't pray to Saints? 

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We don't pray to Saints, we ask them to pray for us. When I was 11, i remember I was going to a Protestant youth group with a friend. A lot of people asked me about that, and at the time I never heard of it. I asked me dad, and he said we can pray to God, for the help from Saints, but not directly to them. 

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First of all, i belive all people who truly belive in our Lord Jesus Christ will be saved, whether they are muslims, catholics, jews...

But there are some things that bother me about Catholicism, for example, why does the Pope live in a palace? , why is he so involved in politics? and worst of all is, why is he considered to be a living Saint? arent we all the same?

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First of all, i belive all people who truly belive in our Lord Jesus Christ will be saved, whether they are muslims, catholics, jews...

But there are some things that bother me about Catholicism, for example, why does the Pope live in a palace? , why is he so involved in politics? and worst of all is, why is he considered to be a living Saint? arent we all the same?

 

(1. You cannot be a Jew or Muslim and believe in Jesus, the two are mutually exclusive.

(2. The Pope lives in a palace because it was felt that he, a man on par with kings and emperors, should live in one. 

(3. If the Church is involved in politics, it is so that politics do not involve themselves in the Church; and to promote the common good.

(4. The Pope is not considered a living saint. But no, we aren't all the same. Some are more important than others, and the Pope is one of those people.

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Well yes and no. This traces back to the other debate is Christianity a Religion or a Relationship. My answer is that Catholic is probably the closest compared to anything else, that is similar to Christianity. I believe it is a denomination, but Catholics believe there is still more to be done to achieve salvation, where christians believe the work is done for us by Jesus

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Hmmm I haven't read that verse, thanks for bringing it up

 

Martin Luther wanted to remove the Book of James from the Bible, because of its heavy emphasis on works as a necessary component of salvation.

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Guest Mike Spero

I have to say that I had a very bad view of Catholicism for a year or two, but I've come to respect a lot of aspects of it. For one, I see asking the Saints for aid and to lift their prayer to God in times of need is a very honorable and touching thing. Though I do not do it, I think it centers a lot on the aspect of the Bride being a united family, and is more than respectable. To say that this is excessively sinful, without believing the common fallacy that they pray directly to the Saints to use their "Saint powers" or whatever, is something that I cannot find any justification for

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I have to say that I had a very bad view of Catholicism for a year or two, but I've come to respect a lot of aspects of it. For one, I see asking the Saints for aid and to lift their prayer to God in times of need is a very honorable and touching thing. Though I do not do it, I think it centers a lot on the aspect of the Bride being a united family, and is more than respectable. To say that this is excessively sinful, without believing the common fallacy that they pray directly to the Saints to use their "Saint powers" or whatever, is something that I cannot find any justification for

 

Aww.... I feel warm and fuzzy now. Come on and give me a hug Mike.  :hug:

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Guest Mike Spero

Aww.... I feel warm and fuzzy now. Come on and give me a hug Mike.  :hug:

bth_hug2.gif

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