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Guest JAG

Bombing Iraq

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Guest JAG

I heard this morning that we started bombing Iraq again.  I was worried, at first, we were starting up a full on war, but apparently we're just protecting some of our facilities, and the bomb specifically targeted a launcher that was threatening some of our personnel.

 

With all of that said, do you think we should have a greater hand in combating ISIS?  Do you think ISIS is a legitimate political organization, or simply a terrorist group?

 

Take a look at some of the latest atrocities they're committing before commenting: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#attacks

 

The interesting thing about Islam when it comes to violence, is they kill their own in droves.  ISIS executed 200 Shiite muslims recently.  In addition to this, they are targeting Christians.

 

I just find it terribly sad, and I think we all need to be praying about this situation. I'm conflicted because I'm a libertarian and am generally against military intervention, but if it continues to get worse and worse I see another extremely just war (such as WWII) on the horizon.  I just don't want us to be involved in it.  I wish the Shiites, Christian, Jewish?, and secular Iraqi's would take care of it without the aid of a superpower.

 

At the very least, I think it's good we are dropping aid to refugees.  I think we should continue to do that.

 

Thoughts?

 

LINK: http://time.com/3092026/us-bomb-iraq-isis/

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I think the original mistake in Iraq was turning the country over to an Iraqi government. The United States needed to rule Iraq as a hegemon with a secular imperialist government led by interim American civilian political leaders. The focus should have been on economic development and prosperity. Instead of spending trillions upon trillions of dollars in a long-term insurgent war, the United States should have spent two trillion dollars developing and reconstructing the society. 

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I think the original mistake in Iraq was turning the country over to an Iraqi government. The United States needed to rule Iraq as a hegemon with a secular imperialist government led by interim American civilian political leaders. The focus should have been on economic development and prosperity. Instead of spending trillions upon trillions of dollars in a long-term insurgent war, the United States should have spent two trillion dollars developing and reconstructing the society. 

 

John, we have never agreed more so than now.

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From what I've heard, and don't quote me on this because I obviously don't know everything that's going on, most people are far happier living in the Caliphate than in Iraq because they hate terrorists and kill them on site. Which makes sense when you want to start a country *cough* Afghanistan *cough*.

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I think the original mistake in Iraq was turning the country over to an Iraqi government. The United States needed to rule Iraq as a hegemon with a secular imperialist government led by interim American civilian political leaders. The focus should have been on economic development and prosperity. Instead of spending trillions upon trillions of dollars in a long-term insurgent war, the United States should have spent two trillion dollars developing and reconstructing the society. 

 

 

...

 

Can't tell if serious << I mean, I don't know enough to disagree, but this seems thoroughly unlike you.

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Guest JAG

From what I've heard, and don't quote me on this because I obviously don't know everything that's going on, most people are far happier living in the Caliphate than in Iraq because they hate terrorists and kill them on site. Which makes sense when you want to start a country *cough* Afghanistan *cough*.

 

I'd encourage you to read some of the articles I posted - or just watch that short youtube video of the woman crying over her people's oppression.

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...

 

Can't tell if serious << I mean, I don't know enough to disagree, but this seems thoroughly unlike you.

 

Part of me believes that capitalism has to annihilate fundamentalism and dominate the entire world before we can move beyond it. 

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Guest JAG

Part of me believes that capitalism has to annihilate fundamentalism and dominate the entire world before we can move beyond it. 

 

As a red-blooded capitalist, I can say I'd gladly give up the system if a better one were to be invented.  As it stands, though, it's the best.

 

The same goes for my views on America  :thumbup:

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As a red-blooded capitalist, I can say I'd gladly give up the system if a better one were to be invented.  As it stands, though, it's the best.

 

The same goes for my views on America  :thumbup:

 

I tend to believe that capitalistic hedonism is better than fundamentalism, so on that point we find common ground. There is a process that has begun. Capitalism has an imperialistic legacy that has antagonized and fundamentalized much of the third world. A deadly back-and-forth cycle has developed, where the West invades a country for our own interest, installs a puppet regime and then watch it collapse while fundamentalists and/or praetorians take over. It is probably more humane for Western capitalism to crush the third world and reshape it in its own image, ending the cycle. Though, there is little indication that the West desires such an end. If the enlightenment ideology finds itself fruitful all around the world, it would probably be the death of capitalism, since there would be no resource-rich, labor-intensive cultures to exploit.

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From what I've heard, and don't quote me on this because I obviously don't know everything that's going on, most people are far happier living in the Caliphate than in Iraq because they hate terrorists and kill them on site. Which makes sense when you want to start a country *cough* Afghanistan *cough*.

 

That may be true, if you are the correct kind of Muslim.

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I've watched a documentary about the handling of Iraq reconstruction called No End In Sight. It was very interesting and informative, and featured a lot of the people that were involved in the "reconstruction".

 

Thing was, there wasn't really a government to hand control over to. So American forces had to deal with the reconstruction, and they did it very poorly. Complex traffic projects were give to interns with no experience, important religious and historical sites were not protected from riots, political vacuums were left unchecked. The whole thing was an absolute disaster.

 

I recommend it highly, I really do. 

Edited by Radical Edward

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I've watched a documentary about the handling of Iraq reconstruction called No End In Sight. It was very interesting and informative, and featured a lot of the people that were involved in the "reconstruction".

 

Thing was, there wasn't really a government to hand control over to. So American forces had to deal with the reconstruction, and they did it very poorly. Complex traffic projects were give to interns with no experience, important religious and historical sites were not protected from riots, political vacuums were left unchecked. The whole thing was an absolute disaster.

 

I recommend it highly, I really do. 

 

Perhaps the worst mistake was destroying the Ba'ath administration in Iraq. 

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Perhaps the worst mistake was destroying the Ba'ath administration in Iraq. 

That was actually noted as one of three crippling mistakes made in the "reconstruction". Not sending enough troops, dissolving the Iraqi military, and "deBa'athification".

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Guest JAG

I've watched a documentary about the handling of Iraq reconstruction called No End In Sight. It was very interesting and informative, and featured a lot of the people that were involved in the "reconstruction".

 

Thing was, there wasn't really a government to hand control over to. So American forces had to deal with the reconstruction, and they did it very poorly. Complex traffic projects were give to interns with no experience, important religious and historical sites were not protected from riots, political vacuums were left unchecked. The whole thing was an absolute disaster.

 

I recommend it highly, I really do. 

 

It sounds good!  Another good doc is "This is What Winning Looks Like" by Vice.  You can find it on youtube, but it basically documents the last few moments before the US pulled out - and it predicts exactly what has happened here recently with ISIS.

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It sounds good!  Another good doc is "This is What Winning Looks Like" by Vice.  You can find it on youtube, but it basically documents the last few moments before the US pulled out - and it predicts exactly what has happened here recently with ISIS.

 

One cannot simply create a chimera and expect it to function like a Western democracy. A liberal parliamentary system atop a society and culture that is deeply tribalist, racist and religionist simply cannot function. The Western liberal democracies were forged in blood by forcing out or eliminating those outside the nationalist corporate body. The United States' destruction of the Native American population and the Australian elimination of the Aboriginal population are perfect examples. Saddamist Ba'athism was only able to dominate Iraqi politics through sheer military force. 

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