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Guest JAG

Transgender is a 'Mental Disorder'

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I've only one thing to say:

 

Sex /=/ gender, and I'm astounded that a former psychiatrist would (likely deliberately) confuse the two. 

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(i.) If transgenderism is a mental disorder, it does not necessarily follow that sex-reassignment surgery is a negative. The conclusion is not very convincingly connected to the proposition. The doctor makes the assumption that gender identity disorder is commensurable with other disorders such as anorexia; an assumption I would not assent with. 

(ii.) I think it is less complicated for a materialist to say "The first is that the idea of sex misalignment is simply mistaken – it does not correspond with physical reality" than for a Christian who believes in some kind of spiritual depth to reality. If there is more to the human being than chemicals and neurons, it becomes plausible that souls have masculine and feminine qualities. From a religious vantage-point it appears plausible that a female soul can be born into a male body and vice versa.  

(iii.) From my understanding of transgenderism in children, those children who are fiercely adamant about their opposite-sex identity do not have a tendency to grow out of it. Those who adopt opposite-sex identity less intensely do have a decent chance of growing out of it. The doctor fails to mention this distinction, probably due to his bias.

(iv.) The doctor makes the assertion that transgender males and females are not really male and female, but he does not give a justification for that which satisfies my philosophical mind. It seems to me that he would be arguing, "There is no such thing as a heap, only grains of sand." 

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I don't think it's a mental disorder, i think it's just people who are unhappy with who they truly are

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Guest Mike Spero

I don't think it's a mental disorder, i think it's just people who are unhappy with who they truly are

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

So many people think "Anything wrong = Mental disorder". I think that in itself warrants a mental disorder assigned to it xp

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I don't think it's a mental disorder, i think it's just people who are unhappy with who they truly are

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

So many people think "Anything wrong = Mental disorder". I think that in itself warrants a mental disorder assigned to it xp

 

No, this is not of the mentality that "anything wrong = mental disorder". This is a matter of looking in the mirror each time and being horrified that you have male or female genitalia. There is a profound disconnection between mind and body. 

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Guest Mike Spero

No, this is not of the mentality that "anything wrong = mental disorder". This is a matter of looking in the mirror each time and being horrified that you have male or female genitalia. There is a profound disconnection between mind and body. 

That's true, I didn't think of that. It's not uncommon for people to consider everything they disagree with a "disorder", and so I didn't pay this claim any creed. But you're totally right, it could very well be a disorder (which would be favorable, as that could potentially be curable)

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I do not think it is a mental disorder... though I cannot define what it is because I have no idea what it feels like to look in a mirror and desire to be the opposite gender. I think mental disorders have been taken a bit out of proportion and it does appear now that everyone seems to have one. Doctors need to get back to making sure someone really does, instead of insisting on constant medications that may not be needed.

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It's the idea we need to let people live their lives, we can't control who they are

Does that same logic apply to people who are addicted to the taste of human blood? Should we just let them live their lives?

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Does that same logic apply to people who are addicted to the taste of human blood? Should we just let them live their lives?

You're taking my idea out of context man, there's a difference between letting a person who wants to be a different sex live their life, and letting a  person who drinks blood continue doing that 

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You're taking my idea out of context man, there's a difference between letting a person who wants to be a different sex live their life, and letting a  person who drinks blood continue doing that

Why? Both are just being "who they are." Both violate essential norms of human existence. Both undermine fundamentals of society. The only difference is that one is violent, but there are lots of problematic things in life besides violence.

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Why? Both are just being "who they are." Both violate essential norms of human existence. Both undermine fundamentals of society. The only difference is that one is violent, but there are lots of problematic things in life besides violence.

Being Transgender bring no harm to anyone else, so why interfere/judge their choices? Drinking someones blood is obviously harmful, their life choice doesn't affect your life as much as someone trying to kill you for your blood

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Being Transgender bring no harm to anyone else, so why interfere/judge their choices? Drinking someones blood is obviously harmful, their life choice doesn't affect your life as much as someone trying to kill you for your blood

But since when is direct harm to another person the only standard for wrongdoing or perversion? Also, annihilating gender norms is bad for society as a whole.

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But since when is direct harm to another person the only standard for wrongdoing or perversion? Also, annihilating gender norms is bad for society as a whole.

How? 

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Being Transgender bring no harm to anyone else, so why interfere/judge their choices? Drinking someones blood is obviously harmful, their life choice doesn't affect your life as much as someone trying to kill you for your blood

 

How about a different example. There is a rare disorder called Body Integrity Identity Disorder that functions a lot like transgenderism except that rather than looking in the mirror and seeing the wrong gender the person looks in the mirror and feels wrong because they have all their functioning limbs. They often to desire to be a certain type of amputee. A paraplegic, missing an arm, etc... This does not carry over to others. People with this disorder often find ways to remove their limbs since doctors won't typically perform the surgery. Intentional car accidents. Dry ice. Initiating sepsis. That kind of thing. They are not violent and do not harm others. It is just how they want to live their lives.

 

Is this a mental disorder?

 

I personally am of the unpopular opinion that being transgender is in a sense a mental disorder. The disconnect of body and mind to such a degree is statistically abnormal and it causes distress and requires extensive resources to deal with (therapy, changing identity, sex reassignment surgery). Now granted I don't neccesarily think it's something that's wrong so much as something that is. Like Autism. It's not wrong. It just is. Why reverse it if the person is happy and functioning? I think of high functioning autistics who resent treatment and think of it as more of an identity. Abnormal but not bad. Or deaf individuals who wouldn't fix their hearing even if they could.

 

I dunno. I'll admit that I don't have a real firm opinion on this. I do prefer terms such as "Gender Dysphoria" to "Gender Identity Disorder" and I think there is something that could be considered "disordered" about having such a strong desire to be the opposite sex that you would injure yourself but is it wrong for a transgender individual to live opposite their biological sex? To get sex reassignment surgery? It's a harder question.

Edited by Marley

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Guest Mike Spero

I can't speak with any certainty, though it honestly sounds like one, to me. To desire so deeply to be of the opposite gender with your body, even if you can never change who you truly are... I don't know. I mean, if I went around all: "I'M A BLACK PERSON ON THE INSIDE! I NEED MY SKIN DYED AND SMALL FACIAL FEATURES RECONSTRUCTED TO MAKE ME WHO I AM!!!" wouldn't that be a little... off? Again, not saying anything with assurance because I've never been in that position or known people who have (and I'm not God cx) but it really does sound like some form of disorder, if you ask me

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I think that the real problem is really what Marley commented on. Our society has such a difficult time with mental disorders. They're things you don't talk about openly. People don't consider them a serious medical conditions. People don't like to "see" others who have some sort of mental disorder, so it's so easy to push them away and say, "They're crazy" or "They're weird" or something. I think, regardless of whether or not you'd classify this as a mental disorder, our society as a whole has to get better and interacting with people with disabilities. Making them people first and labels never would certainly help. Then maybe people wouldn't freak out or have drastic reactions when something like transgenderism is labeled a mental disorder because society would have a more healthy outlook on mental disorders as a whole. 

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And the comments in this thread still don't make sense.

 

EDIT: Zabby hit the nail on the head.

Edited by Ananas

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I think God put a soul in the wrong body on purpose just because he knew that this soul would be strong. He knew It could go through the sex changing and The journey to become The person God wants him/her to be.

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I think God put a soul in the wrong body on purpose just because he knew that this soul would be strong. He knew It could go through the sex changing and The journey to become The person God wants him/her to be.

 

Two comments:

1) Why should we assume that soul and body are so thoroughly distinct from each other that this is possible?

2) Biblical support for such an idea?

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I think God put a soul in the wrong body on purpose just because he knew that this soul would be strong. He knew It could go through the sex changing and The journey to become The person God wants him/her to be.

By that logic, God gave me a body that thinks certain foods are diseases and tries to fight them by closing off my airways because I'm "strong". Thus, I'm always carrying Claritin, watching worriedly what other people are eating, constantly reading menus and avoiding certain restaurants so I don't choke and die. Because I'm "strong." You ever try just powering through something you can't control well? Something alot of people don't understand? It's hard. And just saying "Oh, God gave you that because you can handle it" just seems really dismissive of an issue. "Well, God did it. Deal with it. Move on." Owwie. D:

Also, going on said journey costs about $24,000 to $50,000 depending on which one you're becoming.  Yikes.

That's not how God works. He's a God of connection, logic and order. Not disconnect and confusion. He doesn't make mistakes or intentionally put people in the wrong bodies because they're "strong."

I am inclined to believe transgenderism is some sort of disorder, or connected to/a symptom of a disorder. Whether it's purely mental, emotional,hormonally related or a conglomeration of things, there is something awry in the person's thought processes. And it's not just "God did it because X Y Z", We live in a fallen world, with fallen bodies and weird brains that we're still learning about. There are many possible contributing factors to transgenderism. Also, it seems to me, that whatever this factor is, it's on the rise. Or else people are just more open about it nowadays. I dunno.

 

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I think God put a soul in the wrong body on purpose just because he knew that this soul would be strong. He knew It could go through the sex changing and The journey to become The person God wants him/her to be.

God doesn't make mistakes.

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1) Why should we assume that soul and body are so thoroughly distinct from each other that this is possible?

 

 

I love that you asked this question. Caleb is my favorite person of the moment. 

 

That's not how God works. He's a God of connection, logic and order. Not disconnect and confusion. He doesn't make mistakes or intentionally put people in the wrong bodies because they're "strong."

 

While I agree with the bulk of your post, obviously God did create people with everything from allergies to trisomy 18. I'm not sure I believe we should attribute our idea of benevolent logic to Him or Creation.

Edited by Chris-M

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