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"Why Courtship is Fundamentally Flawed" - Thoughts?

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Sooo my former campus minster posted this on facebook recently and I found myself thinking "hmmm... I wonder what some of the CTF community would think of this" sooo here it is. ^_^

 

http://www.thomasumstattd.com/2014/08/courtship-fundamentally-flawed/

 

What are your thoughts on the article? On dating vs. courtship? On the "traditional dating" idea presented.

 

Personally, I love the "Traditional Dating" idea. Seems like fun, and a good way to get a feel for what you want/need in a partner without the huge amount of emotional investment. I like the old version of the terms "dating" and "going steady". I've recently found myself saying that I'm a fan of casual relationships but I'm realizing that what is presented in this article is more of my ideal. Regular "dates" without being boyfriend and girlfriend time to get to know a few different people and have someone to compare them too before "going steady."

 

So yea. Just throwing that out there.

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Giving your parents control over who you choose to be with is a terrible idea.

I don't believe it is telling you that your parents get to choose who you be with. If you have heard of the Duggars, they are on a t.v. show called 19 kids and counting. They do courtship for their children, and what they do is, the guy who likes the daughter, will go up to the father and ask permission to start getting to know his daughter more. This is not courtship, but the before factor of it. So he would be spending more time with the family and group settings, then when they want to make it official the guy would ask the father to court his daughter, then that leads to engagement after asking the father. And so, you can still get to know a guy well enough before even entering into courtship.

 

And the father actually goes up to the girl and says "So and so is interested in getting to know you better" and they'll say the okay. So in all reality, your parents are only HELPING you pick your spouse, it's good to get advice and have your parents in the relationship to see how he is etc.

 

 

Sooo my former campus minster posted this on facebook recently and I found myself thinking "hmmm... I wonder what some of the CTF community would think of this" sooo here it is. ^_^

 

http://www.thomasumstattd.com/2014/08/courtship-fundamentally-flawed/

 

What are your thoughts on the article? On dating vs. courtship? On the "traditional dating" idea presented.

 

Personally, I love the "Traditional Dating" idea. Seems like fun, and a good way to get a feel for what you want/need in a partner without the huge amount of emotional investment. I like the old version of the terms "dating" and "going steady". I've recently found myself saying that I'm a fan of casual relationships but I'm realizing that what is presented in this article is more of my ideal. Regular "dates" without being boyfriend and girlfriend time to get to know a few different people and have someone to compare them too before "going steady."

 

So yea. Just throwing that out there.

 I am confused weather or not he is saying to Court or not. I have already decided I am going to court. And I just recently found out that one of the families, two guys close to my age, both are going to be courting once they find the right girl. The only thing with courting and why people think it's hard or something, is that you can't find someone who courts unless you specifically ask them. But I found out just by our last Wednesday teen group thing. (I am 19 and turning 20 in DEC so I'll be leaving it soon) Anyways, that's my only "Problem" if you even want to call it that, with courting. But I do believe that God will show you the one if you choose to court, he will show you, by having that boy go up to the father and the father will probably ask questions etc and then talk it over with his daughter.  But yea, all in all, that's my view of it.

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Courtship only works for teenagers, in my opinion. Unlike today's dating, "Biblical Courtship" gives parents more control (or at least seems to) in the relationship of the hormone crazy, self-control lacking adolescents. By having the potential suitor ask the father to romantically see the daughter weeds out alot of the womanizing guys who just want to fool around. If the kid, in all his raging hormone, moody glory has good intentions or really wants to be with the girl, he'll agree to the terms of the father because of "love" or whatever sappy emotion you want to call it.

For young adults though? HECK. TO. THE. NO. I mean, I know a select few homeschool-y rednecks who courted and pulled it off and got hitched, but their lives are now home and kids. They're not going to college, they're not currently working (the girls). It seems boring to me; life is full of adventures, and many of them you can't experience with toddlers! God knows what's best for each of them, I suppose. 

In this day and age, what adult who lives out on their own or works alot/is in college is gonna mess around with gaining permission to hang out with attractive person from work/school? I'm not.  Most guys I know won't. That's too much work and I might lose the opportunity to meet someone new if I'm constantly asking to hang out with this guy or that guy. It's my life, even if I live at home. While I'm at home, I will abide by my parents rules while under their roof (I mean literally under their roof, in the house, their rules, off the property, my rules.). I choose what I wanna do and who to hang out with. Just because I'm going to hang out with an attractive fellow doesn't mean he is "the one" or even that I'm infatuated with him. It merely means I wish to get to know him without getting locked into anything. I'm free spirited and busy, I can't be pinned down by any one guy.

 Parents should really only come into play when things get "serious" (Let's go steady!) or "pre-serious".(We're gonna go steady soon.)


I like this writer, a lot. This part strikes a chord with me:

 

– I know many homeschool girls who are frustrated that they never get asked out on a date. It is not uncommon to find a 21 year old stay at home daughter who has never been asked out on a date. The reason for this is not because the girl is unattractive (although that may be the story she convinces herself of over time).

The real reason is that few guys are willing to ask permission from a woman’s father to marry her before being able to ask her out on a date to get to know her. Even when this permission is requested, it is unlikely to be given.

 

I'm 23 and never been asked out mostly because I've been in the perfect situation to ask a cute fellow to hang out and I was too intimidated to talk to him because of the "MEN MUST INITIATE EVERYTHING COURTSHIP ONLY COOURTSHIPPPPPP" mentality that's been enforced in my household since I reached pubescence. Thankfully, things seem to be loosening up.


In courtship's defense, however, you can play like your parents are controlling weirdoes by telling a creeper that "Oh, you have to talk to my dad before you call me." Works EVERY time. :lol:
 

Edited by Boogles

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Wow, what a great article! My family is Christian, but they aren't as traditional as some. That being said, the first time I was really introduced to what exactly courting entailed was on 19 Kids and Counting. I did like how they did it in some ways but not in others. I think you need to meet quite a few people first. You should get to know them and see what qualities you do and don't want in your future spouse. I talk to quite a few boys but as friends and I am very honest about not wanting commitment at this point. I'm looking mainly for friendship right now, I don't think strong commitment is very realistic for younger people. Not that I haven't seen some younger relationships work out alright, but it seems so difficult. When you are young, you have a lot on your plate (school, extracurriculars, part-time jobs, college applications, etc.), and trying to maintain a committed relationship on top of all of that seems really difficult. Not only that, but now factor in how at that young age, you are still learning who you are and what you want. From the boys I have met and talked to, I have discovered quite a few things I want in my future spouse, and a lot of things I don't want. It's easy to fall for someone when you are younger, and you have to be careful because that doesn't mean they are necessarily your "one true love". 

 

While I don't want my mom (my dad passed away so my mom is the designated "blessing giver" I guess haha) to pick who I date, I do want her blessing. But if I am simply hanging out with a boy, I think it might be a bit overwhelming for us both if he asks my mom if he can take me on a date or be in a relationship with me. I don't really want that kind of pressure, I'd rather us spend time getting to know each other without any added pressure of it being some big official date. Then if we eventually decided we wanted to make it an official relationship, I think it'd make the most sense for us to ask our parents for permission together. I would want his parents' blessing and I hope he'd want my mom's blessing. But I'd want to ask together so they knew it was what we both wanted.  

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I'm 23 and never been asked out mostly because I've been in the perfect situation to ask a cute fellow to hang out and I was too intimidated to talk to him because of the "MEN MUST INITIATE EVERYTHING COURTSHIP ONLY COOURTSHIPPPPPP" mentality that's been enforced in my household since I reached pubescence. Thankfully, things seem to be loosening up.

 

 

I am fairly sure that I've asked out everyone on this forum at least twice. Just saying.

 

 

But yeah, I'm pretty much with you. I like the idea of courtship but I just don't think it's a better fit for grown Christian adults than traditional dating is. If I really want to be with a girl, yes I'll have to be approved by the father but I just feel like the relationship should stay between the two and not go family wide. Like why do two 20 year olds need a chaperon? Is it really that inconceivable that we can just keep our hands (and other body parts) to ourselves and get to know each other?

 

So I'll probably never date a Duggar girl (though Jinger is still single :naughty:) but I just feel like two adults who want to be together can find a way to be civil and chivalrous without having to hold Daddy and Mommy's hands. 

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I know they say they aren't, but really once the Dugger family starts "courting" they're basically engaged. I mean, right when they announce it everyone is talking weddings and future kids.

I feel like they hardly get to see eachother in a romantic/intimate way without already feeling like they're committed for life.

I agree, I like the more old fashioned connotation that goes with dating and going steady. Courtship seemed like such a good idea in middle school and freshman year, but at 21 I see the drawbacks. I don't think I'd ever go that route.

And I loved the one date rule they had for her in middle school. Not gonna lie.

Edited by ksqt0509

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I think the current dating system for teens and young adults both is fine; without the implicit need for courtship or "traditional" dating.

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I agree, the Duggars don't seem to get enough time to get to know their partner before "forever" is being talked about. Not to mention, it puts the poor chaperon Duggar in an odd spot probably. I think you need one-on-one time, not only as a young adult but as a teenager too. If you can trust two people to control themselves when alone together, how can you trust them with the decision to spend the rest of their lives together? 

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Put it this way: any chap who thinks I'm the kind of girl that needs her dad's permission to go on a date is exactly the kind of guy I won't be seeing.

I'm with you, Ashley. I like the difference between dating and going steady (even if I wouldn't use those terms) - lets you keep it casual when you want to.

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If I really want to be with a girl, yes I'll have to be approved by the father but I just feel like the relationship should stay between the two and not go family wide. 

Our of curiosity, do you mean like asking his permission to get engaged or do you mean like, if you wanted to go on a third date or something you'd ask permission. Like where is the line where you think it is necessary to ask?

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I think that in most things, there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. I see courting as the stage between super good friends and engagement. You enter into courtship with the the knowledge that an engagement is extremely likely to follow. Courtship is a time when the couple gets the know each other on a level deeper than plain friendship, but still technically not "engaged". That's how I see it anyway.

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Our of curiosity, do you mean like asking his permission to get engaged or do you mean like, if you wanted to go on a third date or something you'd ask permission. Like where is the line where you think it is necessary to ask?

 

Pretty much engagement. Like, surely I'll meet the dude beforehand but I hardly see the need to get permission to date his grown daughter. I just mean that I'd want him to approve of me to be in her life permanently,  but not until it's that serious.

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