Lefebvre Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I just have to say. Great Monarch Prophecy <3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesker Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I just have to say. Great Monarch Prophecy <3 Monarchists just cannot admit that the age has passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Spero Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I haven't studied Revelation, so I wouldn't know. I hate the poetic style it was written in and reading it really bothers me, unlike the rest of the books. So, I really know virtually nothing about the end times or the rapture, tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel 1525 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I definitely agree with a second coming, but no rapture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefebvre Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Monarchists just cannot admit that the age has passed. Monarchism is not the relic or symptom of an age. Monarchism is the only legitimate form of government, the most perfect form of government ever contrived, and ordained by God. Anything less is utterly unacceptable. Edited October 7, 2014 by Lefebvre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesker Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Monarchism is not the relic or symptom of an age. Monarchism is the only legitimate form of government, the most perfect form of government ever contrived, and ordained by God. Anything less is utterly unacceptable. Merely saying it is not convincing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoyfulFleur Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Instead of me making the same argument to further add to your search, you should just skim over this blog post I read a year ago: The Apocalypse of Esther. To be perfectly honest, I am a preterist/idealist. I believe the Book of Revelation generally refers the events leading up to the destruction of the Second Temple in 70AD. I have no real specific beliefs about the Second Coming. I do not know how literally to interpret it. For Catholics, the Eucharist is a kind of second coming. I am not too familiar with that type of approach towards Revelation. What passages do you feel most likely provide a foundation to support such belief? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesker Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I am not too familiar with that type of approach towards Revelation. What passages do you feel most likely provide a foundation to support such belief? I find the apocalyptic language in the Gospels and the New Testament as a whole to be about the cataclysmic end of the Old Covenant. We find this precisely in Matthew 24. Jesus begins by stating,“You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another, that will not be thrown down.” The apocalyptic discourse which follows is in the context of the destruction of the Temple, which historically occurred in 70AD. The tribulation that Jesus mentions, "And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: all this is but the beginning of the sufferings" is then in the context of the first century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicene Nerd Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 What about the prophecies of the tribulation? What about Wesker's previously mentioned reading of these prophecies being about the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70? When you try reading the Olivet Discourse with that idea in mind, everything just kind of makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfamous Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) What about Wesker's previously mentioned reading of these prophecies being about the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70? When you try reading the Olivet Discourse with that idea in mind, everything just kind of makes sense. Are you excluding the Old Testament Prophecies and Olivet Discourse? As in saying they're separate from Revelation? Edited October 8, 2014 by notfamous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfamous Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 What proof is there? But guys, there is proof of rapture in the Bible.I think the order is like this: Rapture-Tribulation-Second Coming-Millenium-Eternity Luke 21:36 states, "Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man." (NKJV). If there is no rapture, why is there an escaping of Christians in the Olivet Discourse? I'm with you on this Confidence. Why isn't the Old Testament Prophecies and the New Testament Prophecies together? Revelation 13:2 states, "Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority." (NKJV), and Daniel 13:2 states, "The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings. I watched till its wings were plucked off; and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man’s heart was given to it. And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear. It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: ‘Arise, devour much flesh!’ After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it." Why is this Old Testament Prophecy similar to this New Testament Prophecy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesker Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) What about Wesker's previously mentioned reading of these prophecies being about the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70? When you try reading the Olivet Discourse with that idea in mind, everything just kind of makes sense. My belief is not all that different from that of R.C. Sproul. I think he gets most of it right. Though, I am a closer to full preterism, perhaps. Edited October 8, 2014 by Wesker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefebvre Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Merely saying it is not convincing. Neither is your talking about a past age. I guess we're both out of luck then, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesker Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) Neither is your talking about a past age. I guess we're both out of luck then, huh? Well, I think it is most reasonable to posit that the monarchy and the nobility are a specific form of political organization that is dialectically related to the material relations of society, particularly the ancient slave systems and feudal hierarchy. The idea of a mystical-ahistorical divine right of kings appears to be extrinsic to a real intrinsic analysis of social forms. I am not trying to convince you to abandon Monarchism. I am merely spurring you on to become an educated monarchist, who can make rigorous arguments for his beliefs. Edited October 8, 2014 by Wesker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicene Nerd Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 It is obvious that a Catholic does not believe in the rapture, but it's a shame. Clearly a Christian who reads the Bible knows that the prophecy of the book Revelation is real. If you do not read the Bible, can not speak of a NO rapture, because believe me, IS REAL! (It is a Christian site? Expected to find believers, godly people. Philosophical Not so worldly people.) CHRIST IS COMING SOON! Um, what about all of us who believe the Bible is infallible and true, but disagree that the Rapture is biblical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesker Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) It is obvious that a Catholic does not believe in the rapture, but it's a shame. Clearly a Christian who reads the Bible knows that the prophecy of the book Revelation is real. If you do not read the Bible, can not speak of a NO rapture, because believe me, IS REAL! (It is a Christian site? Expected to find believers, godly people. Philosophical Not so worldly people.) CHRIST IS COMING SOON! I am not claiming the Book of Revelation is unreal. I am merely a preterist and believe it has already come to pass. You do not have to be pretentious and label those who disagree your beliefs as ungodly and worldly. Though, as far as insults go, calling me "philosophical" is the greatest compliment. Edited October 8, 2014 by Wesker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidence Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Wesker, this is for you, Matthew 24: 40-41 "Then two men will be in the field, one is taken and one is left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one is left. Try reading the whole of Matthew 24 and tell me what you think. If this doesn't speak rapture to you tell me so I find more. Btw, the site you spoke about doesn't relate to Rapture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicene Nerd Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Wesker, this is for you, Matthew 24: 40-41 "Then two men will be in the field, one is taken and one is left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one is left. Try reading the whole of Matthew 24 and tell me what you think. If this doesn't speak rapture to you tell me so I find more. Btw, the site you spoke about doesn't relate to Rapture. Look at the beginning of Matthew 24. This is all preceded by Jesus prophesying judgment on the temple. So it seems plausible that the following discourse is about that judgment. In that case the verses you cite would most likely be about the result of that destruction, not about any Rapture. Imagine: if you'd never heard of the Rapture, what would you think of this text? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidence Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 I would actually think of rapture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C. Ingram Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I would actually think of rapture This phenomenon is known as 'indoctrination'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicene Nerd Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I would actually think of rapture Really? If you'd never heard of the Rapture, then this passage would make you assume that, when Jesus comes back, He will teleport believers instantly from the earth to meet Him in the sky while changing them to a glorious state? How can you get all that from these couple verses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ella95 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I do think about it when it's brought up but then I think "We don't know when it'll come" so, I think of it as we're preparing ourselves for the coming of Christ as we should be doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidence Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Really? If you'd never heard of the Rapture, then this passage would make you assume that, when Jesus comes back, He will teleport believers instantly from the earth to meet Him in the sky while changing them to a glorious state? How can you get all that from these couple verses? When the second coming occurs every eye will see him but when the rapture occurs no one will see him and no it wasn't all taken from Matthew 24 but from a whole lot other source Edited October 17, 2014 by Confidence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicene Nerd Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 When the second coming occurs every eye will see him but when the rapture occurs no one will see him and no it wasn't all taken from Matthew 24 but from a whole lot other source Well that's your problem. I was asking what you would think of Matthew 24 if you'd never heard of the Rapture. And where does Scripture teach Jesus will have an invisible coming, anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) But guys, there is proof of rapture in the Bible.I think the order is like this: Rapture-Tribulation-Second Coming-Millenium-Eternity I agree Edited February 28, 2015 by Alicia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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