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Lefebvre

Self-pleasure = cheating?

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Prompted by the "Do you *always* think about sex?" poll.

I noted that many seemed to equate viewing pornography -- and presumably fulfilling pornography's raison d'être thereby -- with cheating, if done within the context of a relationship. Putting aside the immorality of onanism (not in the sense of coitus interruptus here) itself, if the partner is okay with it why is this considered the same as cheating? That seems very silly.

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I personally would not do that with my boyfriend/husband (if I had one). To me it just seems kind of wired but that's just me. If your in a relationship you need to stay loyal to your partner. By looking at other people and seeing them in a sexual way is a sin. I know some couples that do that stuff, that's just not my cup of tea.

Edited by HopeLeighs

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To say it is a problem in the relationship is fair and possibly true, but to equate it with actually having sex with another human being is absurdity to the highest degree.

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I do consider it cheating. If you are so obsessed with sex that you must watch another person do it then you don't care about your lover like you should and probably have the ability to cheat on me with another person purely for sex.

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I don't think it's necessarily cheating, but I don't think that porn should be viewed, since it has no benefits as a christian. 

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I wouldn't say that they're the same thing, but I would saying that both compromise a relationship in a similar way. The less you depend on your partner for sexual satisfaction, the less valuable monogamy is to him/her.

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I do consider it cheating. If you are so obsessed with sex that you must watch another person do it then you don't care about your lover like you should and probably have the ability to cheat on me with another person purely for sex.

This^

 

Also, Matthew 5:28 sums up my feelings on this - for both genders.

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If you're going to treat people who view porn like adulterers because of Matthew 5:28, then it seems you're committed to treating angry people like murderers. Further, it's just not true that all people who view porn are willing to actually cheat. There is a big difference between anonymous self pleasure and actually getting entangled with someone. A large proportion of people will do the former but never the latter, especially if they're open about it as per lefebvre's example.

If there's an argument to be made here, then I really think it has to rely on the way self pleasure via porn violates marital exclusivity.

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If you're going to treat people who view porn like adulterers because of Matthew 5:28, then it seems you're committed to treating angry people like murderers. Further, it's just not true that all people who view porn are willing to actually cheat. There is a big difference between anonymous self pleasure and actually getting entangled with someone. A large proportion of people will do the former but never the latter, especially if they're open about it as per lefebvre's example.

If there's an argument to be made here, then I really think it has to rely on the way self pleasure via porn violates marital exclusivity.

Hmm, yes. I didn't mean to lump up every porn viewer into that verse. It was the summation of how felt relationship/marriage wise - specifically marriage(how else can you commit adultery).  You're right, they can't be considered adulterers if they are not in a legal marriage.

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 You're right, they can't be considered adulterers if they are not in a legal marriage.

 

 

Again though, Matthew 5:21-22 reads:

 

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of ancient times, ‘You shall not murder’; and ‘whoever murders shall be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister,[a] you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult[b] a brother or sister,[c] you will be liable to the council; and if you say, ‘You fool,’ you will be liable to the hell[d] of fire.

 

This is established in the same context and with the same rhetoric as the commandment against lust in Matthew 5:28. So, if there is practical equivalence between lust and adultery, then there is practical equivalence between anger and murder. 

 

But there isn't practical equivalence. It would be silly to send angry people to prison, and it would be silly to get a divorce over alienated lust.

 

The equivalence is one of form, not degree.

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Hmm, yes. I didn't mean to lump up every porn viewer into that verse. It was the summation of how felt relationship/marriage wise - specifically marriage(how else can you commit adultery). You're right, they can't be considered adulterers if they are not in a legal marriage.

But if they looked at that sort of thing repented and then later in life got married would that person be an adulter?

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I am a retired parole agent  and have a lot of experience working with men who get caught up in porn. There have been studies that show that it is as addictive as heroin and stimulates the same part of the brain. I have seen many lives ruined by viewing porn too much. It gives an unrealistic view of especially women and has affected how a man views his wife or girlfriend. Unfortunately, many men and women view porn and most are not addicts, but it does skew the real from the fantasy.

 

Remember you are responsibly for your thoughts.

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