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When did the Devil's fall from heaven occur?

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While reading a novella, "Ancient of Days: End of Perfection," about the fall of the Watchers or angels before the flood, I became interested in the famous quote of Jesus: “I see Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven...” The question that remains now is when did this occur? Before the creation of man, immediately before the flood or way after?

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John's vision in Revelation 12 indicates that Satan was cast down from heaven following Christ's exaltation. But other passages seem to indicate he had already fallen. So I tend to think he was exiled following his original sin, be that before and just after creation, and that he lost all access to the heavenly courts (cf. Job 1-2) following the completed atonement.

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It happened BEFORE Creation.

Think of it this way, Satan was cast into the abyss

The earth was made in the Abyss

so Satan was thrown to earth, which allowed him to tempt Adam & Eve, etc.

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It happened BEFORE Creation.

Think of it this way, Satan was cast into the abyss

The earth was made in the Abyss

so Satan was thrown to earth, which allowed him to tempt Adam & Eve, etc.

 

Two issues:

(1) Since when was the earth made in the Abyss?

(2) Even good angels have been going back and forth between heaven and earth.

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In support of my position with Scriptural evidence:

Another mysterious sight appeared in the sky. There was a huge red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and a crown on each of his heads. With his tail he dragged a third of the stars out of the sky and threw them down to the earth. He stood in front of the woman, in order to eat her child as soon as it was born. Then she gave birth to a son, who will rule over all nations with an iron rod. But the child was snatched away and taken to God and his throne. The woman fled to the desert, to a place God had prepared for her, where she will be taken care of for 1,260 days.

Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, who fought back with his angels; but the dragon was defeated, and he and his angels were not allowed to stay in heaven any longer. The huge dragon was thrown out—that ancient serpent, named the Devil, or Satan, that deceived the whole world. He was thrown down to earth, and all his angels with him.

Here, since we are dealing with one vision in otherwise clearly chronological order, it would appear that was cast out following the Ascension.

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Two issues:

(1) Since when was the earth made in the Abyss?

(2) Even good angels have been going back and forth between heaven and earth.

Im with Nicene for once, never heard of the bible talkign about the abyss. Satan was cast into hell. And earth was made in Gods hands

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Satan was cast into hell.

Satan has not been cast into Hell yet. That will not be until the very end. See Revelation 20:7-10.

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Satan has not been cast into Hell yet. That will not be until the very end. See Revelation 20:7-10.

He is in Hell. He will be cast into the bottemless pit during the end times. They are two different things

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In other news, unicorns found to bleed glitter. What effect shall this have on biology? Tune in next week! 

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He is in Hell. He will be cast into the bottemless pit during the end times. They are two different things

Prove it from the Bible. Revelation 20:10 says about the end: "Then the Devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." The bottomless pit part comes before that. The Bible never once says Satan is in Hell right now.

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Do we have to believe that the Devil actually fell in space/time?

Sort of? I have a bit of a funky view on the "heaven" side of "heaven and earth." Even so, it would still seem to me that if Satan fell apart from physical time his fall should probably have non-uniform effects in time, so that a certain point may be legitimately associated with his fall.

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Do we have to believe that the Devil actually fell in space/time?

Aren't heaven and hell considered to be outside of time?

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Aren't heaven and hell considered to be outside of time?

The problem is the ambiguity in the terms "heaven" and "hell."

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Based on previous readings, Satan was removed from heaven around the time of creation, cast down to earth where he would rule, and is still ruling a-long with his demons. He is jealous of man's relationship with God and wants to take as many with him to hell at the end of time, after the 2nd coming of Christ, judgement day. Working on my mobile, will add references when I can.

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Two issues:

(1) Since when was the earth made in the Abyss?

(2) Even good angels have been going back and forth between heaven and earth.

Maybe this is a translational thing Caleb, but in Catholic Bibles (specificlly NAB-RE I'm quoting) Genesis 1 says:

 

"In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth - and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters -" Emphasis mine. 

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Sort of? I have a bit of a funky view on the "heaven" side of "heaven and earth." Even so, it would still seem to me that if Satan fell apart from physical time his fall should probably have non-uniform effects in time, so that a certain point may be legitimately associated with his fall.

 

Care to explain this to me a little further? I am mostly an existential Christian on this topic, so for me this is poetry-plus meant to describe a basic aspect of reality — the shadow of evil — not an historical event.

Edited by Wesker

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Care to explain this to me a little further? I am mostly an existential Christian on this topic, so for me this is poetry-plus meant to describe a basic aspect of reality — the shadow of evil — not an historical event.

I'm not myself solid on precisely how I view Satan's personhood. I tend to see him and the angels/demons generally as "suprapersonal," to borrow N. T. Wright. I think they are in some sense local and restricted entities, for whom personality and consciousness are most likely legitimate analogies if nothing else, but that in some way they transcend the normal limits of personhood as we imagine it.

My view of heaven is also Wrightian here, imagining the normal use of "heaven" in Scripture as referred to an actual created space of some kind (not the uncreated immaterial, immediate presence of God), for God and His angels as opposed to the earth for man. It may not be the same kind of physicality as we inhabit, but I'd say it lies hidden right next to us instead of totally separate and is in some ways interconnected. So in this case earthly time would still have relevance to heavenly time.

In the case particularly of Satan, I think he enjoyed a somehow blessed habitation of this heaven, whatever that might mean, until he fell into corruption and pride, at which point he was no longer at home there and was forced to make earth "home." Yet even at this point I believe he maintained a role as accuser, in some difficult to imagine way presenting the world's sin before God to challenge Him and seek the execution of wrath. But following the Ascension, this role was invalidated by the tetelestai of atonement, and so Satan lost even that place in heaven.

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