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So, recently I've found myself discussing feminism with a lot of people. and I want to know what people think..

 

-Can you be christian AND a feminist?

 

-Is feminism good or bad for modesty?

 

-What would you define in your own words as the feminist movement?

 

-Do you think something has been made a part of it that really should not be a part of it?

 

 

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answering my own stuff here

 

-Can you be christian AND a feminist?'

I think you can. God has led many women to be leaders, even in manly roles. Joan of Arc, Esther, etc...

 

-Is feminism good or bad for modesty?

I think FEMINISM as a true movement, does not affect it. However, clothing has been made a part of the movement. Woman should be allowed to dress less if they feel like it. It honestly makes me lose respect for the movement, because it is being used as an excuse to be immodest a lot.

 

-What would you define in your own words as the feminist movement?

The feminist movement is the movement of equality between men and women. Women should not be denied rights, have to pay more, or be denied jobs because they are 'women'.

 

-Do you think something has been made a part of it that really should not be a part of it?

The clothing aspect I just mentioned. Feminism is not a free trip to have a right to look like a Victoria Secret's model on the streets. That was not what it was meant for.

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Feminism has no consistent definition. It is a meaningless label.

That said, I find most of the more visible people who call themselves "feminists" these days to be disastrously liberal.

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Feminism is an inconsistent ideological concept, because it has been claimed by so many disparate ideologies. Think about it this way, almost every political movement in this day and age says that they represent freedom and democracy. It is merely that these words are empty concepts for the most part. Politicians love to use indeterminate concepts like liberty. Who does not love liberty? The difficulty is that it is not abstract liberty that people value, but a more concrete, determination. Letting all the criminals out of death row to wander the streets could be a great expression of abstract liberty. If I am free to beat my wife, that is more liberty for me. 

 

Therefore, feminism has become this catch-all label somewhat akin to a concept like democracy — even China claims to be democratic, it is merely "democratic centralism". Feminism is a catch-all word for people who believe there is something generally oppressive about current gender relations and believes that this oppression disproportionately affects women. That is all. The belief on the manner of this oppression and the solution to it can be as stark as libertarianism and Communism in ideology. 

 

To throw a wrench in the previous definition, it is not quite clear that third-wave feminism is particularly concerned with the fate of women in society. Third-wave feminism is broad enough to practically cover all unjust gender relations. LGBT issues are a common concern, along with studies on masculinity.

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So, recently I've found myself discussing feminism with a lot of people. and I want to know what people think..

 

-Can you be christian AND a feminist?

 

-Is feminism good or bad for modesty?

 

-What would you define in your own words as the feminist movement?

 

-Do you think something has been made a part of it that really should not be a part of it?

 

Feminism (n.) - the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of equality of the sexes. 

 

The really important thing to remember about feminism is that it is as varied and nuanced as the women it aims to represent. Like John says, someone who says they are a feminist is someone who believes in the equality of the sexes and that this should be implemented. It is not a specific term. 

 

- can you be a Christian and a feminist? Of course you can. I am a Christian. I am also a feminist. I would definitely say my faith influences my feminism; I cannot be a Christian and ignore half of the world's population and its glaring problems. I wouldn't go as far as to say that I am a Christian feminist, because I'm not as concerned with feminist theology as I am with systemic gender inequality that perpetuates poverty, violence, oppression etc. Christian and feminist? Yes. Christian feminist? No. That distinction makes sense in my head - if you need more clarification, let me know. 

 

- is feminism good or bad for modesty? Modesty is applicable to both sexes. Modesty is a fluid concept, dependent on culture, era and circumstance; feminism is neither good or bad for it. It makes the statement that the individual should be autonomous over their own body, and therefore make their own clothing choices, and that the human body is not shameful, but it doesn't promote or protest against modesty. It simply says that 'modesty' should be an individual's choice. 

 

what would you define in your own words as the feminist movement? A broad movement, with longstanding history and relatively defined eras, which centres on the belief that men and women are equal, and fights for this to be implemented in societies, attitudes and legislation. 

 

do you think something has been made a part of it that really should not be part of it? I don't really understand this question. 

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To katy to the last question:

Has the feminist movement pushed a certain agenda you feel truly has nothing to do with its main purpose?

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To katy to the last question:

Has the feminist movement pushed a certain agenda you feel truly has nothing to do with its main purpose?

 

Oh, I see.

 

No, not really. 

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Although I generally consider myself a feminist the label is so broad that you'd have to ask me more specific questions before I would say that I am aloud. 

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Guest JAG

The timeline of feminism is so strange.

 

At one point, feminists argued to be allowed to work - good.  To vote - good.  Have credit cards - good. Do away with pornography - good.

 

Then, suddenly, feminism became: Perpetuate pornography, destroy femininity, strip in public, kill our babies - all of which are bad

Edited by JAG

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kill our babies - all of which are bad

 

Catherine MacKinnon argued that the push for abortion is not about sexual liberation but based on the male desire to have unlimited sexual domination over women without consequences.

Edited by Wesker

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Guest JAG

Catherine MacKinnon argued that the push for abortion is not about sexual liberation but based on the male desire to have unlimited sexual domination over women without consequences.

 

No matter what, women get the short end of that stick.  Yes, some men do pressure their girlfriends/concubines to have an abortion so they won't have to deal with the consequences.  Sick men.

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I see nothing wrong with Feminism, I like the idea of equality, I think we all do. 

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Guest JAG

I see nothing wrong with Feminism, I like the idea of equality, I think we all do. 

 

Is there a difference between equality and fairness in your book?

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The timeline of feminism is so strange.

 

At one point, feminists argued to be allowed to work - good.  To vote - good.  Have credit cards - good. Do away with pornography - good.

 

Then, suddenly, feminism became: Perpetuate pornography, destroy femininity, strip in public, kill our babies - all of which are bad

my problem you just listed omg

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Is there a difference between equality and fairness in your book?

What do you mean? I'm not sure how to answer your question completely.

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Guest JAG

What do you mean? I'm not sure how to answer your question completely.

 

What's the difference between 'equality' and 'fairness' in society, if any?

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What's the difference between 'equality' and 'fairness' in society, if any?

Okay good, that's what I thought you were asking, but I just wanted to clarify, thank you. 

 

But anyways, Equality when applied to a topic such as feminism would be the act of making both Men and Women equal, which is a great idea I see no issue with, and in a sense of securing the rights of women. Fairness in society would be the act of judging two or more different sides with impartiality. 

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Guest JAG

Okay good, that's what I thought you were asking, but I just wanted to clarify, thank you. 

 

But anyways, Equality when applied to a topic such as feminism would be the act of making both Men and Women equal, which is a great idea I see no issue with, and in a sense of securing the rights of women. Fairness in society would be the act of judging two or more different sides with impartiality. 

 

Should both, men's and women's public restrooms have tampon dispensers? Should both men, and women, be put in the same maximum security prison population?

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Should both, men's and women's public restrooms have tampon dispensers? Should both men, and women, be put in the same maximum security prison population?

Men have no need for tampon dispensers in our bathrooms, so no, also no they shouldn't be put in the same prison. By equality for women around the world, I talk about ending their oppression, like in countries where they have child brides, or even in America where women are still payed less in some places. 

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Guest JAG

Men have no need for tampon dispensers in our bathrooms, so no, also no they shouldn't be put in the same prison. By equality for women around the world, I talk about ending their oppression, like in countries where they have child brides, or even in America where women are still payed less in some places. 

 

Then you're not for equality, you're for fairness.  I am too. To do so, though, you must recognize the differences between men and women.

Edited by JAG

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Then you're not for equality, you're for fairness.  I am too. To do so, though, you must recognize the differences between men and women.

 

I assent with this sentiment in the abstract, though we would probably disagree in the concrete. Liberation for men and women for me is the freedom of their notions—maleness and femaleness—to be what they are in-and-for-themselves. And it is here that I would dissent with the majority of feminists.

Edited by Wesker

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I'm going to try to answer this without bringing shame and dishonour upon my lovely waifu.

Can you be a Christian and a feminist? This depends on the type of Christian. It is impossible for a Traditional Catholic to be a feminist, but not so for an Anglican. It is probably difficult for a practicing Orthodox Christian to be a feminist, but probably not for a Pentecostal, etc. It depends on what an individual Christian brings to the table and what their conception of feminism is.

As for this second question re: modesty, I think it depends. You specifically Jazzy are trying to "No True Scotsman" your way through this topic; but I think a valid case can be made for incorporating fashion and dress as a feminist concern. Walking down the street in an above-the-knee skirt without being called a mattress-hopping whorefrog is a reasonable feminist concern to my eyes. Wearing a smile and crotchless panties may be a different issue altogether. But even what is "modest" is so incredibly variable that it's impossible to define. What a Traditional Catholic man finds grievously immodest -- I.e. pants, as opposed to a skirt or dress -- I'm betting most of us don't have a problem with. Unless the terms are more uniformly defined an answer is meaningless.

A political buzzword often used by benighted extremists. Too often, I cannot help but despise self-proclaimed feminists. Equality of opportunity and basic rights, which l agree with, has seemingly morphed into some madcap nonsense about putting a woman on the $20 bill and eliminating "manspreading". In a world where the presumed Democratic nominee is a woman who is practically lactating funding I think that any real, substantive issues women may have in the US are buried under an ocean of Social Justice Warriors clamouring to eliminate gender-specific pronouns. I am as deeply suspicious of male feminists as I am of white anti-racist activists because I have a professional distaste for wallowing self-loathing.

I think that women can vote, drive, work outside the home, and hold positions of authority in every Western society; and therefore beyond a touch of vanguardism to protect the fruits of the suffragettes et al. all of Western feminism is superfluous. Everything now falls under the simple "don't be a sleazebag" category. The real place of feminism today is in Islamic and other non-Western societies. However a special shout-out must be included for feminist theology, which I have an especial hatred for. If feminism could get it's ovaries out of religion, that would be great.

N.B. Jazzy I'm honestly rather bemused by your defence of feminism and the right of women to wear what they want mixed with a touch of polemics against your seemingly stringent brand of modesty. Reminds me uncomfortably of Mike.

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I'm going to try to answer this without bringing shame and dishonour upon my lovely waifu.

7/10, we'll work on it ;)

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7/10, we'll work on it ;)

 

 

83124cc9b36038b0e6b1622685e0e42b.jpg

 

He used the terms "mattress-hopping whorefrog" and "lactating funding". That's at least an 8/10.

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The timeline of feminism is so strange.

 

At one point, feminists argued to be allowed to work - good.  To vote - good.  Have credit cards - good. Do away with pornography - good.

 

Then, suddenly, feminism became: Perpetuate pornography, destroy femininity, strip in public, kill our babies - all of which are bad

 

 

My thoughts on the matter exactly.

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