Jump to content
Frigid

Is Islam a bad religion?

  

24 members have voted

  1. 1. Is the main cause of terrorism the doctrine of Islam, or is it not related to the actual teachings of Islam.

    • Islam creates terrorists
    • Islam does not create terrorists


Recommended Posts

Seriously though, of course Islam doesn't create terrorists. That's merely a stereotype of Islamic people.

Exactly! Not all Islamic people are terrorists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wherever Christianity goes, usually we see industrialization, education (college universities were once run by the churches...along with most hospitals and adoption agencies), scientific advancement, and the end of social injustices such as slavery. 

 

Seriously, look at countries with majority populations of Muslim, then examine their social conditions vs. the social conditions of countries with majority populations of Christians...or even other religions/nonreligions.

Nevermind that the Middle East is the only reason a great deal of Greek and Roman works survived, since the Middle Eastern, predominately Muslim nations were the onces that kept and copied ancient works.

 

Nevermind that Arabic was once the language of science.

 

Nevermind that there have been numerous Muslim scientists throughout history that have made vast contributions to the sciences.

 

Nevermind that the first, oldest university in the world, the University of al-Qarawiyyin, was established in Fez, Morocco in 859 A.D. and became a spiritual and educational center of the Muslim world. 

 

Nah, Christianity did all that. There was no such thing as hospitals or universities in the Muslim world, no scientific advancement. Only stagnation, just poor, lost base savages without the Christian West to "neuter" them. 

 

Yeesh, JAG.

Edited by Radical Edward

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nevermind that the Middle East is the only reason a great deal of Greek and Roman works survived, since the Middle Eastern, predominately Muslim nations were the onces that kept and copied ancient works.

 

Nevermind that Arabic was once the language of science.

 

Nevermind that there have been numerous Muslim scientists throughout history that have made vast contributions to the sciences.

 

Nevermind that the first, oldest university in the world, the University of al-Qarawiyyin, was established in Fez, Morocco in 859 A.D. and became a spiritual and educational center of the Muslim world. 

 

Nah, Christianity did all that. There was no such thing as hospitals or universities in the Muslim world, no scientific advancement. Only stagnation, just poor, lost base savages without the Christian West to "neuter" them. 

 

Yeesh, JAG.

 

What I did not want to waste my time explaining. To be fair, I thought this was common knowledge for anybody with a high school degree. Even with my Southern Baptist homeschooling textbook education, I was taught this.

Edited by Wesker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest JAG

Nevermind that the Middle East is the only reason a great deal of Greek and Roman works survived, since the Middle Eastern, predominately Muslim nations were the onces that kept and copied ancient works.

 

Nevermind that Arabic was once the language of science.

 

Nevermind that there have been numerous Muslim scientists throughout history that have made vast contributions to the sciences.

 

Nevermind that the first, oldest university in the world, the University of al-Qarawiyyin, was established in Fez, Morocco in 859 A.D. and became a spiritual and educational center of the Muslim world. 

 

Nah, Christianity did all that. There was no such thing as hospitals or universities in the Muslim world, no scientific advancement. Only stagnation, just poor, lost base savages without the Christian West to "neuter" them. 

 

Yeesh, JAG.

 

 

Once again, point me to a Muslim nation more advanced in science, industrialization, education, and social justice.  You're basically saying, "This child has excelled at finger painting in the past!" - and that's good.  Honestly, kudos.  Yet another child has painted beautiful murals since its birth.

 

The number of Muslims who have been Nobel laureates? 1.9%

 

The number of Christians? 65.4%

 

Jews? 22%

 

Islam does not breed advancement. It's a stagnant belief system that can only thrive within a political theocracy - exactly why so many are brutalizing the world in an attempt to establish a Caliphate.

 

This quote by Winston Churchill sums it up nicely:

 

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.

 

The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Once again, point me to a Muslim nation more advanced in science, industrialization, education, and social justice.

 

 

The Ottoman Turks.

 

"But the Ottoman Empire has been gone since it lost world war I!"

 

Yeah, and since then we've made a habit of hostile occupation and imperial interference, which has impoverished, balkanized and radicalized the region.

 

The relatively dysfunctional middle east is a consequence of 19th and 20th century geopolitics and is a relatively recent phenomenon. It has little to do with the inferiority of Islam to Christianity.

 

 

The number of Muslims who have been Nobel laureates? 1.9%

 

The number of Christians? 65.4%

 

Jews? 22%

 

One black British economist won a nobel prize. Otherwise, no black person has won a scientific Nobel Prize--even though many are religious, educated, Christian Americans. The number of black prize winners in literature and peace are roughly equivalent to the number of Muslim winners.

 

Is this proof of white cultural superiority? No. It's proof that white western civilization has enjoyed structural advantages over the period in which Nobel Prizes have been awarded--especially in regards to winning a prize given by white western civilization.

Edited by Chris-M

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Ottoman Turks.

 

"But the Ottoman Empire has been gone since it lost world war I!"

 

Yeah, and since then we've made a habit of hostile occupation and imperial interference, which has impoverished, balkanized and radicalized the region.

 

The relatively dysfunctional middle east is a consequence of 19th and 20th century geopolitics and is a relatively recent phenomenon. It has little to do with the inferiority of Islam to Christianity.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest JAG

The Ottoman Turks.

 

"But the Ottoman Empire has been gone since it lost world war I!"

 

Yeah, and since then we've made a habit of hostile occupation and imperial interference, which has impoverished, balkanized and radicalized the region.

 

The relatively dysfunctional middle east is a consequence of 19th and 20th century geopolitics and is a relatively recent phenomenon. It has little to do with the inferiority of Islam to Christianity.

 

 

 

One black British economist won a nobel prize. Otherwise, no black person has won a scientific Nobel Prize--even though many are religious, educated, Christian Americans. The number of black prize winners in literature and peace are roughly equivalent to the number of Muslim winners.

 

Is this proof of white cultural superiority? No. It's proof that white western civilization has enjoyed structural advantages over the period in which Nobel Prizes have been awarded--especially in regards to winning a prize given by white western civilization.

 

The Ottomans definitely had a few good merits.  I actually have no idea what their advancements were like outside of war.  They were really really good at war and genocide (like the 1.5 million Armenians or half a million Christian Greeks).

 

And more blacks have been nobel laureates than Muslims.  You've conflated two statistics (on purpose?).

Edited by JAG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They were really really good at war and genocide (like the 1.5 million Armenians or half a million Christian Greeks).

 

 

Unlike the good Christian nations of that period. Unless you count Spain's annihilation of Mesoamerican peoples. That alone gives us a few million people. Add to that the the Dutch enslavement of several Pacific island peoples, American black slavery, US annihilation of American Indians, eastern European pogroms, Protestant/Catholic interpersecution, or Russia's curious desire to exterminate its own people through its brutal form of serfdom, and you have a much higher tally.

 

As for war, well, good God, do I have to say anything?

 

Imperial powers in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries sucked in a lot of ways whether they were Muslim or Christian, American or Asian.

 

 

And more blacks have been nobel laureates than Muslims.  You've conflated two statistics (on purpose?).

 

 

15 black laureates : 11 Muslim laureates. Taken from a list of 863 laureates, this is not a statistically significant difference.

 

Further, among the black laureates, 3 were for literature and 1 was for economics. All others were for peace. Among Muslims, 1 was for chemistry, 1 was for physics, and 2 were for literature. All others were for peace. So, for prizes given besides the peace prize, the final tally is 4:4, with Muslims outperforming blacks in science.

 

Not that this proves anything. Using nobel prizes as evidence of cultural worth is bone-headed. 

Edited by Chris-M

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@JAG, I realize that you will not take this well, that you will twist and turn to avoid it, but I will not feel comfortable until it's been said.

You are being alarmingly racist right now.

So the vast contributions of the Muslim world are just fingerprintings? The scientific discoveries, the cultural upheavals, the gorgeous works of art... Everything ever accomplished or concieved by the Muslim world is unimportant, nothing worth cheering over except to make them feel better.

But literally everything Christianity's done, oh, they're the true masters of all. Algebra? Trigonometry? Chemistry? Cryptology? Created by Muslims and thus petty garbage. The syringe? The forceps? Bah. The first accurate discription of how human vision works? Who needs it?

Every contribution the (Middle Eastern) Muslim world has ever made, large or small, is simply a fingerpainting to (Western) Christianity's massive genius.

In short, what the brown people have contributed to humanity is automatically inferior to what the white people have done, no matter what those contributions are. And those brown Muslims need to be "neutered" by the white Christian west.

The things you're saying in this thread are not rooted in a logical view of the Muslim world. They are rooted in racism, in a frankly false belief that Muslims are inferior to Christians, and that anything the Muslims have done is therefore inferior to anything the Christians have done.

The contributions of the Muslim world to the world at large are not a fingerpainting, JAG, and you should seriously look at yourself for saying so. The whole world is a mural, not just Chrisitianity. And every culture and people and religion have a part in that mural. Western Europe, Eastern Europe, the countries of Africa, South America, Central America, North America, the Middle East, Asia, Russia. Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Shintoism, Judaism, Catholicism, Protestantism, Islam both Sunni and Shiite. They're all part of the mural, making the mural, and they've all made contributions both good and bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JAG, I don't really care if you want to be ignorant, racist, and uneducated. There are a lot of your folk out there, usually harassing Muslims trying to go to mosque on Friday or shouting obscenities at women with covered heads. It is entirely your prerogative.

However, and I say this with the utmost seriousness, there is a point I think you're missing and a book I'd like to recommend.

First off, Islam is not a cultural religion. What I mean is, it's not intrinsically Arab. A lot of people associate the two, and the use of Arabic as a "liturgical language" in Islam and the common usage of Arabic phrases doesn't exactly diminish that impression. But Islam is one of the fastest growing religions on Earth. Millions of people convert to it each and every day. There are white Muslims, black Muslims, Muslims in Germany, Russia, China, Japan, Brazil, France, etc. and countless numbers of them are converts. The Qur'an refers to embracing Islam and Allah as "the most trustworthy handhold, which will never break." You've done a bang-up job trying to make Muslims look like ignorant savages, but you've forgotten that not all of them come from Camelstan and bathe in the blood of UN soldiers.

Also, No god but God: the Origins, Evolution, and Future of Islam is a well-informed and well-written book by a Muslim-American scholar which not only serves as a great introduction to Islam, but also an impassioned call for Islamic liberalism and a revolution in Quranic interpretation. Give it a read some time and try not to vomit when it portrays Arab Muslims, on occasion, as regular people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JAG, I don't really care if you want to be ignorant, racist, and uneducated. There are a lot of your folk out there, usually harassing Muslims trying to go to mosque on Friday or shouting obscenities at women with covered heads. It is entirely your prerogative.

However, and I say this with the utmost seriousness, there is a point I think you're missing and a book I'd like to recommend.

First off, Islam is not a cultural religion. What I mean is, it's not intrinsically Arab. A lot of people associate the two, and the use of Arabic as a "liturgical language" in Islam and the common usage of Arabic phrases doesn't exactly diminish that impression. But Islam is one of the fastest growing religions on Earth. Millions of people convert to it each and every day. There are white Muslims, black Muslims, Muslims in Germany, Russia, China, Japan, Brazil, France, etc. and countless numbers of them are converts. The Qur'an refers to embracing Islam and Allah as "the most trustworthy handhold, which will never break." You've done a bang-up job trying to make Muslims look like ignorant savages, but you've forgotten that not all of them come from Camelstan and bathe in the blood of UN soldiers.

Also, No god but God: the Origins, Evolution, and Future of Islam is a well-informed and well-written book by a Muslim-American scholar which not only serves as a great introduction to Islam, but also an impassioned call for Islamic liberalism and a revolution in Quranic interpretation. Give it a read some time and try not to vomit when it portrays Arab Muslims, on occasion, as regular people.

 

Ethan makes the best posts these days <3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow.

 

This really blew up. 

 

I'm so glad I could gather all your opinions and add them to my reasoning bank.

 

:pepsi:  :party:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest JAG

Unlike the good Christian nations of that period. Unless you count Spain's annihilation of Mesoamerican peoples. That alone gives us a few million people. Add to that the the Dutch enslavement of several Pacific island peoples, American black slavery, US annihilation of American Indians, eastern European pogroms, Protestant/Catholic interpersecution, or Russia's curious desire to exterminate its own people through its brutal form of serfdom, and you have a much higher tally.

 

As for war, well, good God, do I have to say anything?

 

Imperial powers in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries sucked in a lot of ways whether they were Muslim or Christian, American or Asian.

 

 

15 black laureates : 11 Muslim laureates. Taken from a list of 863 laureates, this is not a statistically significant difference.

 

Further, among the black laureates, 3 were for literature and 1 was for economics. All others were for peace. Among Muslims, 1 was for chemistry, 1 was for physics, and 2 were for literature. All others were for peace. So, for prizes given besides the peace prize, the final tally is 4:4, with Muslims outperforming blacks in science.

 

Not that this proves anything. Using nobel prizes as evidence of cultural worth is bone-headed. 

 

I ask you to point out a predominantly Muslim nation with advanced scientific, economic, social freedoms, etc. You offer the Ottoman Empire.  I tell you I don't know too much about the Ottomans, aside from the fact they subjugated enormous populations.  You then say, "well, these other countries subjugated enormous populations too" - but I fail to see how that suddenly cleans the Ottoman's as a shining example of the peak of an Islamic State.  Aside from the genocides, the Ottoman empire did let certain minorities live within their territory - but they still had to pay the Jizya.

 

This is what you're not getting ultimately: an Islamic State CAN NOT EXIST without subjugating entire people groups that disagree with it.  It can not exist without cutting the hand off the thief, and enforcing other brutal acts of judicial punishment.  An Islamic nation will expand, unceasingly, throughout the entire world, in order to bring 'peace.'  It either kills you, forces you to convert, or taxes you into poverty.  It will never have as thriving of an economy, as say, a democracy, because it demands control of not just the politics, not just the personal lives, but also the market place.  I'll write more on this at the end.

 

 

@JAG, I realize that you will not take this well, that you will twist and turn to avoid it, but I will not feel comfortable until it's been said.

You are being alarmingly racist right now.

So the vast contributions of the Muslim world are just fingerprintings? The scientific discoveries, the cultural upheavals, the gorgeous works of art... Everything ever accomplished or concieved by the Muslim world is unimportant, nothing worth cheering over except to make them feel better.

But literally everything Christianity's done, oh, they're the true masters of all. Algebra? Trigonometry? Chemistry? Cryptology? Created by Muslims and thus petty garbage. The syringe? The forceps? Bah. The first accurate discription of how human vision works? Who needs it?

Every contribution the (Middle Eastern) Muslim world has ever made, large or small, is simply a fingerpainting to (Western) Christianity's massive genius.

In short, what the brown people have contributed to humanity is automatically inferior to what the white people have done, no matter what those contributions are. And those brown Muslims need to be "neutered" by the white Christian west.

The things you're saying in this thread are not rooted in a logical view of the Muslim world. They are rooted in racism, in a frankly false belief that Muslims are inferior to Christians, and that anything the Muslims have done is therefore inferior to anything the Christians have done.

The contributions of the Muslim world to the world at large are not a fingerpainting, JAG, and you should seriously look at yourself for saying so. The whole world is a mural, not just Chrisitianity. And every culture and people and religion have a part in that mural. Western Europe, Eastern Europe, the countries of Africa, South America, Central America, North America, the Middle East, Asia, Russia. Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Shintoism, Judaism, Catholicism, Protestantism, Islam both Sunni and Shiite. They're all part of the mural, making the mural, and they've all made contributions both good and bad.

 

I don't think you know what racism is.  Or perhaps you don't know what Islam is.  Your usual tactic of race baiting mixed with a severe victim complex is getting wearisome.  Just to attempt, again, to education you on the topic though: Islam is a religion, it's not a race. It's one philosophy in the marketplace of philosophies, and like all marketplaces - some products are superior to others.  This has nothing to do with phenotypes - as you make EVERYTHING out to be, so it seems.

 

 

JAG, I don't really care if you want to be ignorant, racist, and uneducated. There are a lot of your folk out there, usually harassing Muslims trying to go to mosque on Friday or shouting obscenities at women with covered heads. It is entirely your prerogative.

However, and I say this with the utmost seriousness, there is a point I think you're missing and a book I'd like to recommend.

First off, Islam is not a cultural religion. What I mean is, it's not intrinsically Arab. A lot of people associate the two, and the use of Arabic as a "liturgical language" in Islam and the common usage of Arabic phrases doesn't exactly diminish that impression. But Islam is one of the fastest growing religions on Earth. Millions of people convert to it each and every day. There are white Muslims, black Muslims, Muslims in Germany, Russia, China, Japan, Brazil, France, etc. and countless numbers of them are converts. The Qur'an refers to embracing Islam and Allah as "the most trustworthy handhold, which will never break." You've done a bang-up job trying to make Muslims look like ignorant savages, but you've forgotten that not all of them come from Camelstan and bathe in the blood of UN soldiers.

Also, No god but God: the Origins, Evolution, and Future of Islam is a well-informed and well-written book by a Muslim-American scholar which not only serves as a great introduction to Islam, but also an impassioned call for Islamic liberalism and a revolution in Quranic interpretation. Give it a read some time and try not to vomit when it portrays Arab Muslims, on occasion, as regular people.

 

Thank you for suggesting books to read - that's the most productive post yet.  You would do well to leave off things like your first paragraph - it just makes you sound like a raving lunatic.  I adore head coverings - find them beautiful - and if you simply failed to read my previous post, I have Muslim friends, have been inside Mosques, judge a strictly Muslim film festival.  These are American Muslims though - they grew up next door to me with Western civilization in their veins. They are more lax on alcohol, bacon, and what not - and certainly aren't going around trying to enforce Sharia in our little city. They've been gelded.

 

Now, to finish what I was writing earlier, and most likely to finish out my writing period:

 

Islam, from its inception, has been nothing short of a cancer.  It was born in blood - the blood of Pagans at Mecca, the destruction of Constantinople, and ravaging of the falling Roman Empire.  If it wasn't for Martel in Tours, we would all, most likely, be unable to criticize anyone in power at this moment - or would never have been born.

 

To this very day, it's steeped in the blood of innocence.  We are wicked sheltered in the US.  We've only really experienced a few Muslim bombings, beheadings, and honor killings.  Yet, if you examine nations with higher percentages of Muslims in it, you see a great deal more violence and subjugation.  Just today, 10 people lost their lives to a suicide bomber at a marketplace in Baghdad. A few days ago, Al Queda murdered 20 people in Syria. In Nigeria, a few days ago Boka Haram shot and murdered 16 women doing laundry.  It's an every day occurrence in these nations. And it's not about race.

 

You can be any 'race' in the world and believe anything.  It's what you believe in that can motivate your actions. Islam is one of those beliefs, that, since its inception has trapped men.  It's a very tempting religion given it's corruption of scripture and fleshly rewards.  It makes way for your wrath and anger, which burns against your enemies, to be righteously carried out.  It's bankrupt of the true spirit of Christ, but veils itself in just enough to make you think its a righteous belief - such as the pillar of alms giving.  It's god does not love you.  Allah only loves those who serve him.  He does not love sinners.  So to finish answering the OP's question, "is Islam a bad religion?" Yes, yes it is.  Absolutely.  And one of the scariest things is - many of its adherents would kill me for writing so if they could. Just look at how they treated Charlie Hebdo.

Edited by JAG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't failed to read your earlier post, I just didn't feel like addressing the "but I have black friends!" card; and you have twice referred to US Muslims in the way one refers to tamed animals. I simply don't have the time for this anymore, I don't have the ability or really at this point the inclination to deal with how staggering your posts on this subject are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't failed to read your earlier post, I just didn't feel like addressing the "but I have black friends!" card; and you have twice referred to US Muslims in the way one refers to tamed animals. I simply don't have the time for this anymore, I don't have the ability or really at this point the inclination to deal with how staggering your posts on this subject are.

So in other words you admit defeat? 

 

Nice to know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And, as was foretold, JAG refuses to acknowledge his alarming Islamophobia and racism and ignores everything written because that way, it's easier to sneer. Excuse me while I go my smelling salts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So in other words you admit defeat? 

 

Nice to know.

Calm yourself Bubba. There's a difference between:

"I'm too frustrated by your post to reply."

and

"Well screw it, you've defeated me."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Calm yourself Bubba. There's a difference between:

"I'm too frustrated by your post to reply."

and

"Well screw it, you've defeated me."

 

 

I know, it just seems like you kind of were stumped :) Not that you should be, as a counter argument shouldn't be that hard. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know, it just seems like you kind of were stumped :) Not that you should be, as a counter argument shouldn't be that hard. ;)

If I want your opinion on my debate tactics I'll ask for them; until then either make the argument yourself or hush.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I want your opinion on my debate tactics I'll ask for them; until then either make the argument yourself or hush.

:twisted:  :clap:  :love:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, stop it. Just stop snipping at one another constantly and trying to score points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, stop it. Just stop snipping at one another constantly and trying to score points.

Sorry, I was intentionally provoking Lefebvre.

 

My apologies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, I was intentionally provoking Lefebvre.

 

My apologies.

 

<3 You're not bad for a 15 year old. No way I would have admitted something like this at your age.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

nph-highest-of-5s.gif

this brings back memories when I totally called someone out in a roleplay off topic for being a liar, and Dee posted this as to comment on the rage fit post (that was longer than half her rp post put together LOL) to award me

I was also from that day forth considered the honorary DRAMA LLAMA

 

ah. fun memories. XD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×