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Is it ever the victims fault?

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So, here's a scenario.

A young homosexual man is walking through a part of a city that has had a significant increase in violent crimes against homosexual men and women. (As violent as it is, think Snowtown.) The man is walking alone, wearing a rainbow t-shirt that says "Gay is Okay". He gets viciously assaulted and beaten within an inch of his life.

Is the assault his fault? Were they "asking for it"?

Obviously, you can take this any other way. A black man walking through a neighborhood with known active Klansmen or a woman walking in a seedy neighborhood while wearing a cocktail dress... etc..

Follow up question...

Picture any of the scenarios above, except this time, it's just a normal neighborhood. Crime happens but it's hardly a regular occurence. But it just so happens that something happens to the victim.

Is it the victims fault this time? We're they still asking for it?

(Insp. For this debate comes from a quote I heard from Whoopi Goldberg. Can't remember what it said but it was something along these lines.)

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Well, I suppose that if they know the area is a place where someone of their ethnicity, gender, sexuality or whatever is likely to be antagonised and even targeted, then they probably should exercise some common sense and take a different route. I don't know for certain if it could be classified as their fault if something happened though. There may be the possibility they are unaware of the area's reputation, might've taken a wrong turn and got unlucky or something along those lines. But, I guess that if they are aware of where they are headed, then they probably should just try and use their common sense and take a different path. But, if it is the other example of a normal neighbourhood, I definitely don't think they should be blamed for what happened to them. If the area has a known reputation and they go there anyway, then I guess it could be their own fault in some sense due to their ignorance. Of course, every case is different and this can't be said all the time

Edited by LittleMac

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I would say not.  Assault etc. is the fault of the perpetrator, not the victim.  We should be able to walk wherever we want without fear that somebody's going to single us out because of what we look like or how we're dressed.

 

That said, it's probably unwise to deliberately choose a route that potentially places you in harm's way.  However, victim-blaming by both society and courts of law is what allows such crime to go unchecked and people to be afraid of reporting their experiences.  We should never blame the victim over the perpetrator.

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No, it's not the victim's fault. If someone knows where they're going is a dangerous place for their kind of people, than it's pretty dumb to go there. But the fault is the one who does the assault.

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I don't think the victim is at fault in the above two cases, but they should have taken some precautions. It's just common sense to take precautions like that. If that means going around said neighborhood if at all possible, then do that.

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No, they shouldn't have to be careful of where they go because of Race or sexuallity, it is the attackers fault. Being human isn't a crime. 

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While it is not their fault...it is never the victims fault truly.

 

If they knew they could put themselves in danger doing that, in a way they were being unwise.

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That's the keyword "Victim". Many people play the victim these days, if I were beat up I get up and call the cops.. of course defend myself where I could get to the phone haha. but.. Instead of saying "im the victim" how about just stepping up and saying "these guys beat me up". And I don't care who you are. If you beat someone up, you go to jail, you did a crime. Now if you are saying was the homosexual asking for it. Maybe he was if he wore the short intentionally because he knew they hated gays in that area.. Hes trying to play the victim.. Now if he unknowingly wore the shirt into that area.. Not knowing they were "gay haters" than no he wasn't asking for it..

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No.

The "faulted" person is the one who committed a wrong. In neither case did the victim commit a wrong.

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While it is not their fault...it is never the victims fault truly.

 

If they knew they could put themselves in danger doing that, in a way they were being unwise.

So it's the suspects fault and not anything they used?

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Oh my god don't make this a gun debate Bryce.

Don't worry. I'm not gonna. That's up to you to start it. Choose wisely ok? ;)

Anywho, it's not the victims fault. That's all I gotta say and amen to that

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Naturally, I agree with the majority that suffering a criminal abuse cannot be construed as the victim's "fault." They are guiltless and not at all culpable, nor can their aggressor's actions be excused on the basis of any actions by the victim.

That said, it is still entirely possible that some such events are in some way consequences of the victim's obliviousness, lack of wisdom, or outright stupidity, even though the victim cannot be, properly speaking, given any blame at all.

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The victim is faultless, but sincerely unwise in his choice of attire in this particular place. Your shirt will still be there tomorrow, when you walk through a better part of town, perhaps in the company of friends?  It's kind of like me hanging out in the Nutella aisle at the store. I'm not asking to have an allergic reaction, but I've put myself in a potentially compromising situation that could have been avoided by going down another aisle or simply holding my breath and walking by as fast as possible.

As for the regular neighborhood without the sketchy-ness, not his fault, nor is he being unwise. If you're minding your business and someones jumps you, their fault.


No one is asking to be assaulted, raped, murdered, etc, by their dress and behavior.  EVER.

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I figured a few of you would say yes. Huh.

Now I'm tempted to give a hard time to the "maybe they aren't wise" group, just for fun :P

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I was tempted for certain scenarios tbh. XD I almost feel like a cruel person confessing this XD

For me, it depends on the scenario and the extent of victimization.  Someone gets assaulted, molested, raped, attacked, anything violent, the blame is on the perpetrator.

The case when the victim is partially to blame is when they repeatedly make stupid non-lifethreatening choices and then play their part.  I'll make an example out of my fellow college students.

Some girls on campus like to run around in very tiny, very skimpy little outfits and "sexily" lean on objects or bend over in front of guys..

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all for expressing yourself via your clothing, and I don't think these girls are asking to get attacked in any way, shape or form. BUT, they are intentionally dressing and acting in a way that will get the attention of every male in the building. 

They are asking, pleading, begging for male attention, and the majority of single males around them are creeps.  85% of the college population knows that the best way to pick up a decent person is to dress like a decent person.

The other 15% are just dumb.

if you dress in a way that screams "look at me!" (ala booty shorts in October,  intentional whale tail on the horizon, boobs hanging out of tiny tops or wearing pink panties under white leggings) you're going to get attention, and it may be from an undesirable source.. Don't cry about the kind of attention you're being given when you dress like this, also, this whole thing could have been avoided if you'd just worn decent clothes. :\  You're to blame for continuing to cry about the attention you get without  changing your wardrobe. He's to blame for not knowing how to respect women.  You're both at fault for being lame, and you deserve each other.

 

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For me, it depends on the scenario and the extent of victimization.  Someone gets assaulted, molested, raped, attacked, anything violent, the blame is on the perpetrator.

The case when the victim is partially to blame is when they repeatedly make stupid non-lifethreatening choices and then play their part.  I'll make an example out of my fellow college students.

Some girls on campus like to run around in very tiny, very skimpy little outfits and "sexily" lean on objects or bend over in front of guys..

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all for expressing yourself via your clothing, and I don't think these girls are asking to get attacked in any way, shape or form. BUT, they are intentionally dressing and acting in a way that will get the attention of every male in the building. 

They are asking, pleading, begging for male attention, and the majority of single males around them are creeps.  85% of the college population knows that the best way to pick up a decent person is to dress like a decent person.

The other 15% are just dumb.

if you dress in a way that screams "look at me!" (ala booty shorts in October,  intentional whale tail on the horizon, boobs hanging out of tiny tops or wearing pink panties under white leggings) you're going to get attention, and it may be from an undesirable source.. Don't cry about the kind of attention you're being given when you dress like this, also, this whole thing could have been avoided if you'd just worn decent clothes. :\  You're to blame for continuing to cry about the attention you get without  changing your wardrobe. He's to blame for not knowing how to respect women.  You're both at fault for being lame, and you deserve each other.

 

you get me XD

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if you dress in a way that screams "look at me!" (ala booty shorts in October,  intentional whale tail on the horizon, boobs hanging out of tiny tops or wearing pink panties under white leggings) you're going to get attention, and it may be from an undesirable source.. Don't cry about the kind of attention you're being given when you dress like this, also, this whole thing could have been avoided if you'd just worn decent clothes. :\  You're to blame for continuing to cry about the attention you get without  changing your wardrobe. He's to blame for not knowing how to respect women.  You're both at fault for being lame, and you deserve each other.

 

The point is that a person should be able to wear whatever-the-heck they want and how people react to that is not the problem of the person wearing the outfit; they shouldn't have to cater their wardrobe to others.

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The point is that a person should be able to wear whatever-the-heck they want and how people react to that is not the problem of the person wearing the outfit; they shouldn't have to cater their wardrobe to others.

"Should", yes,  I , but unfortunately, in this society, this is not the case, especially for women, with this objectification crap that's running rampant( but that's an entirely other thread.).

 

It's a toss up between wearing what you want and having to put up with the foul behavior of others. Which is more important to you, your outfit or not getting constantly cat called? I think it becomes someone's problem when they begin to feel the need to gripe about it regularly but do nothing to resolve this issue eg, changing the outfit, telling the guy to go away/shut up, ignoring him completely... there are options!

Pick one, rant a little bit about it, and then go on with life. Constant whining (which is what these girls do!) about something on this level is just silly.  Also, as I said before in regards to the gay man, that outfit will still be there tomorrow, you can always wear it in a different crowd, at a different place.

 

Edited by Boogles

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