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Can one be saved if he only accumulates good deeds without doing evil but does not believe in God?

56 posts in this topic

As cato was asking, saved from what? "Christianity is not about getting into heaven, but getting heaven into you". (C.S Lewis) It's interesting that we focus on that. 

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Answer would be a no. Jesus is the way the ticket to your salvation. In fact our good deeds are like rags before the Lord that's why we need Jesus to be saved.

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Answer would be a no. Jesus is the way the ticket to your salvation. In fact our good deeds are like rags before the Lord that's why we need Jesus to be saved.

 

Can someone be saved by Jesus as the only way without ever hearing about Him?

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Good works sure are good, but it's not the ticket to heaven

But the Bible says that we are judged according to our works and there really isn't a "ticket" to heaven.

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But the Bible says that we are judged according to our works and there really isn't a "ticket" to heaven.

It was a figure of speech. And when that is said, it's talking about we are judged by our sins, but our salvation is based off believing in God

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It was a figure of speech. And when that is said, it's talking about we are judged by our sins, but our salvation is based off believing in God

I would recommend you follow the phrase, "Judged according to their works," through the Scripture.

Edited by Delores Stariana

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I would recommend you follow the phrase, "Judged according to their works," through the Scripture.

I should point out that judged according to works does not necessarily equal justified by works.

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I should point out that judged according to works does not necessarily equal justified by works.

I agree, I wasn't saying that.

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The "Book of Good Deeds" is a humans' book, not God's book. Without belief and fear of God, entry into the Kingdom of Heaven is and will not be possible no matter how many good deeds one has accumulated.

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Well, there's this verse to consider:

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

I can't tell if this is the exact verse I was looking for, but it's pretty similar. It states that there is no excuse for not knowing God, because if you simply look around you, you should be able to know that it was created by a higher power.

 

Also,

"For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out." Romans 7:18

 

John 14:6 - "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

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Well, there's this verse to consider:

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

I can't tell if this is the exact verse I was looking for, but it's pretty similar. It states that there is no excuse for not knowing God, because if you simply look around you, you should be able to know that it was created by a higher power.

 

Also,

"For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out." Romans 7:18

 

John 14:6 - "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Next question: can someone be saved by Christ without knowing it?

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Of course man can be saved without believing in Christ if God so chooses to let that happen; God makes laws and can break them whenever He so chooses. Whether that will happen is an entirely different question. I've always approached it with the idea that Christ is the only absolute, 100% guaranteed way to receive salvation. One might be able to be saved outside of the cross, but there's no guarantee, and that's risky business. Given the Great Commission, it makes no sense to think that there is certainty anywhere but in Jesus. 

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Of course man can be saved without believing in Christ if God so chooses to let that happen; God makes laws and can break them whenever He so chooses. Whether that will happen is an entirely different question. I've always approached it with the idea that Christ is the only absolute, 100% guaranteed way to receive salvation. One might be able to be saved outside of the cross, but there's no guarantee, and that's risky business. Given the Great Commission, it makes no sense to think that there is certainty anywhere but in Jesus.

You may agree with me 94%+.

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You cannot be saved unless you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior (John 14:6)

With the exception of aborted babies because they have not received the opportunity to sin, or carry out believes in God.

 

Once Jesus died on the cross it made sin not matter how it use to. What I mean is we should strive not to sin but we will not go to hell for sinning because of the sacrifice God made for us. The only thing God ask for in return for his sacrifice is for us to live out a life of giving him glory and accepting Jesus as our Lord and savior. God also expresses how out good deeds look like dirty rags to him so even if this person does no evil it will never look as great as the good deeds God does. It will never be acceptable to Gods standards. The only way it is acceptable is through Jesus. (Isiah 64:6). Even looking at it from a technical prospective of one only doing good deeds he is still not saved because they do not believe in our Father God and the Holy Son, Jesus. 

 

A word to sum up Christianity would be faith and without it we would not meet the father in our homeland, heaven. 

 

(Also if you look up the verses read the chapters not just that one verse so you get context)

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Of course man can be saved without believing in Christ if God so chooses to let that happen; God makes laws and can break them whenever He so chooses. Whether that will happen is an entirely different question. I've always approached it with the idea that Christ is the only absolute, 100% guaranteed way to receive salvation. One might be able to be saved outside of the cross, but there's no guarantee, and that's risky business. Given the Great Commission, it makes no sense to think that there is certainty anywhere but in Jesus. 

God makes it very clear that he does not break his covenants. God never goes back on his word and is absolute. Technically speaking God can do whatever he pleases to do. But the standard God has set is never going to change. God will never allow someone who does not accept Jesus to heaven because Jesus express how he is the only way to salvation. God made it so Jesus is the only way and nothing can change that. It gets extremely confusing for young Christians when they are reading that God can save a non believer is he chose to because although that is true it is not accurate with the biblical prospective of God and Salvation.

 

I do understand what you are expressing and I thought I'd speak a little bit more on to it.

Love, Ronnessa <3 

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God makes it very clear that he does not break his covenants. God never goes back on his word and is absolute. Technically speaking God can do whatever he pleases to do. But the standard God has set is never going to change. God will never allow someone who does not accept Jesus to heaven because Jesus express how he is the only way to salvation. God made it so Jesus is the only way and nothing can change that. It gets extremely confusing for young Christians when they are reading that God can save a non believer is he chose to because although that is true it is not accurate with the biblical prospective of God and Salvation.

 

I do understand what you are expressing and I thought I'd speak a little bit more on to it.

Love, Ronnessa <3 

 

Actually, I think you're misunderstanding the argument. Of course Jesus is the only way, and of course God cannot go back on His word. But God never promised to not save anyone in particular, and Jesus died for the whole world, so it is not an impossibility for God to in some way actualize the atonement in someone who does not have conscious faith.

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Depends. If this poor soul had never heard of Christianity, then yes. God is infinately merciful and will not condemn someone to Hell out of ignorance. If they were a good person, and tried to be the best person they possibly could, then they are saved. If they choose not to convert after they are told the good news, then we should pray for them because they're in trouble.

  My response to this argument is always the same, and I am getting pretty tired of writing it. If salvation can be gained by not knowing the Gospel, why do churches exist? I mean, wouldn't it be easier and smarter to just close all the churches, burn all the Bibles and stop preaching the Gospel? Eventually, given a couple decades, everyone would be saved as no one has ever heard of the Gospel.

 

 And in regards to mental disability, I believe that falls under Accountability. Just like children are destined to Heaven, as they can't fully comprehend good and evil, so are people born with mental restraints that limit them to childlike processing skills. If a person develops a condition later in life, like Alzheimer's, I believe differently. They have had their chance at salvation but never took it or never were given it, so they must deal with the consequences.   

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My response to this argument is always the same, and I am getting pretty tired of writing it. If salvation can be gained by not knowing the Gospel, why do churches exist? I mean, wouldn't it be easier and smarter to just close all the churches, burn all the Bibles and stop preaching the Gospel? Eventually, given a couple decades, everyone would be saved as no one has ever heard of the Gospel.

While I don't agree that people who never hear the Gospel are automatically saved, if they were preaching the Gospel could still be useful, because Christ changes and redeems lives and times even now before anyone dies.

 

Just like children are destined to Heaven

Can you support this Biblically?

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While I don't agree that people who never hear the Gospel are automatically saved, if they were preaching the Gospel could still be useful, because Christ changes and redeems lives and times even now before anyone dies.

   Of course you are right. My example was a bit extreme but it could theoretically work if the aforementioned argument was correct. I in no way actually support burning Bibles, closing churches, etc.

 

Can you support this Biblically​

 

 

  I try to support all my arguments Biblically, and I appreciate your asking. The idea of Age of Accountability was never directly written in the Bible but was implied multiple times. Deuteronomy 1:39 suggests that children are unaccountable for their sins as they have yet to fully comprehend the difference between Good and Evil. Of course, being an Old Testament verse, it doesn't directly imply salvation by Christ, but you can see the Biblical stance on the subject. From a personal view, would a just God send people to Hell that were mentally unable to comprehend why?

 

  And still on the subject of Age of Accountability, (I'm on a roll, don't stop me) I don't believe that their is a set age where suddenly you gain all the wisdom regarding Good and Evil and are accountable from then on. I believe this is a personal thing. Some people may be able to fully understand the concept at 4 years old, while others might be 8 or 10. Some, due to mental disability, may never be able to understand it, and thus the "Age of Accountability" never hits.

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Deuteronomy 1:39 suggests that children are unaccountable for their sins as they have yet to fully comprehend the difference between Good and Evil.

I'm not sure this works. It acknowledges that young children don't know good from evil, but neither did Adam and Eve until after they became guilty of sin.

From a personal view, would a just God send people to Hell that were mentally unable to comprehend why?

What is the difference between being unable to comprehend because you have a baby brain (children) and because you don't understand anything about God's will (people who don't know the Gospel)?

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I'm not sure this works. It acknowledges that young children don't know good from evil, but neither did Adam and Eve until after they became guilty of sin.

 

  I am not quite sure of what you're implying here. Adam's and Eve's first sin was eating of the Fruit of the ​Knowledge of Good and Evil. ​So they knew the difference between Good and Evil when they sinned.

 

What is the difference between being unable to comprehend because you have a baby brain (children) and because you don't understand anything about God's will (people who don't know the Gospel)​

  That is a really good question, and it is something that someone much smarter than me probably knows the answer to. God often works in mysterious ways that we can't fully understand.

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I am not quite sure of what you're implying here. Adam's and Eve's first sin was eating of the Fruit of the ​Knowledge of Good and Evil. ​So they knew the difference between Good and Evil when they sinned.

You miss what Genesis says. They didn't have knowledge of good and evil until they ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The tree is where they got the knowledge.

Beside, Genesis clearly portrays Adam and Eve as basically children. They were newly created, given a small space with a simple rule, did not have access to the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and were naked but didn't notice or care. Those make for a pretty complete picture of early childhood.

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I actually managed to interpret what you meant in the aforementioned post, so I apologize for the inconvenience of you re-explaining it.

 

 The Bible say be sure your sins will find you out. Children still sin, but they are not yet accountable for those sins until they can understand them. When they reach the Age of Accountability, they are now accountable for their earlier sins. Just because we don't understand what sin is, we can still sin as we are born with a sin nature. Kind of like the way infants don't need to be taught how to suckle, it comes naturally.

 

 When Adam and Eve first sin, they were likely unaccountable for it due to their lack of understanding of Good and Evil. However, when they gained the knowledge from the tree, they realized their sin and were ashamed of it. They have gained accountability because they know understand what they did was wrong and should repent.

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