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Ask a Feminist

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CTF has a number of members who identify as feminists of one variety or another, and a number who are both Christians and feminists. I thought it might be a good idea to have the opportunity to clear up a few misconceptions, or ask questions! So, if you'd like to know why people are feminists, what sorts of things they believe, where you can go to do some reading etc., ask away! 

 

However...

 

There are going to be a couple of rules for this thread, though:

  1. THIS IS NOT A DEBATE THREAD. This is a place for light discussion, and people being able to ask questions about things. Debate and staff will delete your posts. The thread will be closed if you can't do that. It's not a place to debate complementarianism or whether feminists hate the male sex. Be sensible, please. 
     
  2. Don't attack members. Don't say things like "you hate men", or that someone is an oppressed sheep because they're not a feminist etc., because it never ends well. Be civil. 
     
  3. Be thoughtful in the way you ask or answer questions. Tone and word choice can be everything. As I said above, be civil and polite, and things'll be grand. 

 

 

Happy chatting/discussing/learning :) 

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Do you think a woman who has the same job title as a man but is incapable of doing all the work the man does should be paid the same?

 

Example: Male and female construction workers

Yes. It's ridiculous that women can't get the same pay.

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Do you think a woman who has the same job title as a man but is incapable of doing all the work the man does should be paid the same?

 

Example: Male and female construction workers

Who's got more work experience? And aren't all construction and labor jobs required to have a "you must be able to lift and carry X amount of weight to apply for this" stipulation? Why would someone have a job they are incapable of doing in the first place? I know this happens, but alas, it remains. Someone reasonable with a job they can't perform doesn't make sense.

 

Anywho,

How do you feel about the feminist extremists? Like the raving mad savages on tumblr who actually exist in real life? ( I met one... oy. Not a pleasant experience.)

How do you define your feminism?  What all does it entail? 

 

Edited by Boogles

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Do you think a woman who has the same job title as a man but is incapable of doing all the work the man does should be paid the same?

 

Example: Male and female construction workers

I want to see Jakob and Cato debate the difference in strength between men and women. Not in this thread, obviously. :P

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Anywho,

How do you feel about the feminist extremists? Like the raving mad savages on tumblr who actually exist in real life? ( I met one... oy. Not a pleasant experience.)

How do you define your feminism? What all does it entail?

Most radical feminists I know aren't even feminist. When you add misandry to you feminism, you stop becoming a feminist and start becoming a jerk. Among other things.

What defines my feminism? A lot. Like, I would be typing for a long time. But primarily...

The equal treatment of men and women in the work force.

The end of the objectification of the female body.

And just the promotion of girls confidence because of a deep rooted problem of catering to men's needs over a woman's.

There is Sooo so much more to it than that, but you get the gist.

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Do you think a woman who has the same job title as a man but is incapable of doing all the work the man does should be paid the same?

 

Example: Male and female construction workers

...If she's incapable of doing all of the work that the man does, then the man should be paid more.

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Anywho,

How do you feel about the feminist extremists? Like the raving mad savages on tumblr who actually exist in real life? ( I met one... oy. Not a pleasant experience.)

How do you define your feminism?  What all does it entail? 

 

I find it quite hard to pinpoint necessarily a movement or 'label' for my feminism, but here's the gist of it:

 

I have quite a traditional understanding of feminism. I believe men and women are different, and that they have different experiences, and that those differences are important, but I don't think either men or women's experiences are more valid and those differences do not make one better than the other

 

I'm not a proponent of feminism that argues for the removal of gender. If someone claims to be 'gender fluid' or 'gender neutral', I'll respect that out of politeness and courtesy, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. Part of the problem I see with a lot of popular feminism is that in a bid for equality, so many effectively say that in order for women to be equal to men, they must eschew their femininity or female identity, which does absolutely nothing for equality because it's ultimately just another way of saying that there's something wrong with being female. 

 

I think 'female' and 'male' encompass many things. I say this quite often, but I think about myself and my two female best friends as an example. I believe in marriage, I want children and I'd always give up a career for them if I had to, I am naturally more submissive in my relationship with my boyfriend, etc. One best friend looks very stereotypically 'feminine' - long hair, curves etc. - but doesn't believe in marriage, doesn't want children, is far less 'relational' than I am, etc. The other best friend looks more 'feminist' - short hair, nose piercing, incredibly accomplished athlete - and yet her personality is very gentle and kind and sweet.

 

I guess my point is that the way we all fit into traditional understandings of 'femininity' is very different. But, we're all very inherently female, we have female identities, and we're all feminists (of one variety or another). We don't want to be men. We want the female experience to be upheld and valued in equal measure to its male counterpart, and for men and women to have the freedom to explore and express what their genders are. 

 

I think gender inequality is tremendously unfair on both men and women. Emotions/mental health problems/feelings, for example, are all associated with women and very often perceived as weak. I think that's a huge reason why in the UK alone, there's a massive asymmetry in attempted and successful suicides in men and women; in 2014, men under-45 made up 78% of the suicide rate, and women are ten times more likely to seek out mental health treatment than our male counterparts. Our attitude toward gender and emotion is quite literally killing off young men, a silent epidemic that we're not addressing. That's not just, right or fair, and it must be rectified. 

 

As long as we continue to assume that there is some kind of diminished responsibility inherent to the female sex, men suffer. They are treated as expendable in war. They're assumed to be more capable of extreme depravity and violence, resulting in longer prison sentences for the same crimes. They're assumed to be less caring and emotional, which means women tend to be prioritised in child custody cases, regardless of whether that's best for the child. 

 

For me, feminism is not a means of giving women the upper hand. It's about acknowledging the capability for good and bad in both genders, recognising that we have different experiences, and ending the fight between man and woman that holds us back as a whole. 

 

I never used to think like this, and used to have a much more 'pop-feminist' understanding of gender etc. But, after doing a load of reading and thinking (and yes, praying!) I realised that feminism can mean different things, and my feminism didn't necessarily have to follow the popular road it's on. I could call myself an egalitarian in order to escape the association with radical feminists/misandrists, but to me, that's like saying I'm a "Jesus follower" because I don't want to be associated with crappy Christians. There's a history and a heritage to being a feminist, there's shoulders of giants I stand on with that label, and I don't think the bad outweighs the good in that regard. 

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So I have a question for everyone that doesn't identify as a feminist.

Why not? What part of feminism does not appeal to you? Is it because of a specific issue? Religious beliefs? Are you just sexist?

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So I have a question for everyone that doesn't identify as a feminist.

Why not? What part of feminism does not appeal to you? Is it because of a specific issue? Religious beliefs? Are you just sexist?

If feminism if the above, I suppose I am to a degree. I'm all for equal wages in the workplace, the end of sexual objectification and all objectification in general (because I am more that just a pair of boobs and legs, thanks,), and by all means increase confidence in girls. Heck, some guys need it too. 

I'm okay with genders being different but equal, that's just what they are!

My main concern is the stereotype, the name, the label. I don't want to be perceived as some crazy person who burns bras and rejects chivalry. I realize you all are reasonable people, but the public has a huge misconception about feminism and I want no part of said misconception.

Granted, they have one about Christianity too, but, somehow that's different to me I'm not sure what's not clicking, but something isn't. I feel like some of my personal morals and my conservative "Bible thumping" upbringing conflict with what some aspects of mainstream feminism advocates.  Other parts ring 100% with me. 

Can one be 78% feminist? :P

 

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I still would identify myself as a feminist if someone asked, but I do agree with Boogles. People who aren't quite educated about it (which is a lot of people) can have misconceptions about it. However, I do believe that biblically, men and women have different places in society, and that doesn't make one better or worse than the other.

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So I have a question for everyone that doesn't identify as a feminist.

Why not? What part of feminism does not appeal to you? Is it because of a specific issue? Religious beliefs? Are you just sexist?

I personally feel the feminist movement already occurred. I can vote, work, etc. therefore I have my rights. Modern feminism to me is a joke of trying to make women into men. Women are NOT men. Plus the modern feminist movement promotes things such as abortion and immodest dress (many think it's okay to be a Miley Cyrus on the street if you are "happy") and often modern feminists actually insult those who prefer to follow the traditional woman roles (i.e. my mother gets insulted for choosing to be a stay at home mother) therefore, I have a lot of personal "negative vibes" from the modern feminist movement therefore do not consider myself a modern feminist.

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I personally feel the feminist movement already occurred. I can vote, work, etc. therefore I have my rights. Modern feminism to me is a joke of trying to make women into men. Women are NOT men. Plus the modern feminist movement promotes things such as abortion and immodest dress (many think it's okay to be a Miley Cyrus on the street if you are "happy") and often modern feminists actually insult those who prefer to follow the traditional woman roles (i.e. my mother gets insulted for choosing to be a stay at home mother) therefore, I have a lot of personal "negative vibes" from the modern feminist movement therefore do not consider myself a modern feminist.

 

I'll go into this at a later point when I'm not about to go to bed, but formal and substantive equality are different, which is why "I can vote and work" has never made much sense to me as an argument against feminism.

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I think gender inequality is tremendously unfair on both men and women. Emotions/mental health problems/feelings, for example, are all associated with women and very often perceived as weak. I think that's a huge reason why in the UK alone, there's a massive asymmetry in attempted and successful suicides in men and women; in 2014, men under-45 made up 78% of the suicide rate, and women are ten times more likely to seek out mental health treatment than our male counterparts. Our attitude toward gender and emotion is quite literally killing off young men, a silent epidemic that we're not addressing. That's not just, right or fair, and it must be rectified. 

 

As long as we continue to assume that there is some kind of diminished responsibility inherent to the female sex, men suffer. They are treated as expendable in war. They're assumed to be more capable of extreme depravity and violence, resulting in longer prison sentences for the same crimes. They're assumed to be less caring and emotional, which means women tend to be prioritised in child custody cases, regardless of whether that's best for the child. 

 

Bravo!

 

Even though we still I'm sure have different views on things relating to this topic at least there are some things we can both agree on! In this world we need a lot more open dialogue, discussion, and sometimes friendly debate between reasonable people who have a different views on things. 

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Who's got more work experience? And aren't all construction and labor jobs required to have a "you must be able to lift and carry X amount of weight to apply for this" stipulation? Why would someone have a job they are incapable of doing in the first place? I know this happens, but alas, it remains. Someone reasonable with a job they can't perform doesn't make sense.

 

Anywho,

How do you feel about the feminist extremists? Like the raving mad savages on tumblr who actually exist in real life? ( I met one... oy. Not a pleasant experience.)

How do you define your feminism?  What all does it entail?

Late to thread, late to everything this month.

Feminist extremists are upset and want to be included in a pity fest. They include selfish insular views and are generally just deluded kids.

Feminism to me is the experiences I've had growing up.

There's the obvious annoyances, men reacting in such a manner as is insulting personally, then the insidiously more irritAting realization that it was a knee jerk reaction on their part and the degradation wasn't even perceived.

There's also the common negative reaction to the very word feminism.

There's personal experiences in which retrospect sours interactions,

Theres treating men like their emotions are important and their immediate response is offense.

There's the twitch when you catch yourself before saying something to the implication that if a woman isn't aesthetically pleasing she has already failed in some way.

There's more, which is in of itself wretched.

I am a low key feminist because I'm a low key human. Also because I have a soft spot for humans and secretly hope that if they treated each other nicer they'd stop being so entirely abhorrent and perhaps be worth the effort I put into being polite.

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To what extent are you repulsed by people who fail to identify as feminists or who self-identify as non or anti-feminist? For this question, assume you know little else about the person.

Edited by Chris-M

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Bravo!

 

Even though we still I'm sure have different views on things relating to this topic at least there are some things we can both agree on! In this world we need a lot more open dialogue, discussion, and sometimes friendly debate between reasonable people who have a different views on things. 

 

Tbh this has been my view for a number of years, there's just never really been a CTF platform where it can be discussion rather than debate. 

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