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Confidence

1 John 5:16-17

I was reading through the book of 1John and when I came to chapter 5, I was confused at the verse 16 and 17.

I don't get the 'sin unto death' and 'sin not unto death'. I want to understand this, do we have mortal or immortal sin?

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I think it's saying that if its not one of The Big Seven (lust, wrath, gluttony, sloth, greed, envy, and pride) then you should pray for them to find God and He will save them.

The seven deadly sins cause death, maybe not physical, but spiritual, emotional, etc.

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I like the explanation given, but I also am still kinda confused. Were the "seven deadly sins" mentioned in the Bible? I thought those were described by a man a couple hundred years or so ago. So why would these specific sins he talked about lead to death? I thought all sin had the same power to kill the spirit and separate from God.

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Isaiah 64:8-

Yet you, Lord, are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand.

 

I was feeling very self concious today and this reminded me that all of my imperfections are not imperfections in the eyes of God. And to me, his judgement means more to me than society.

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My interpretation of this takes a different approach.

 

If a Christian keeps a repeating cycle of sin, God might decide that it would be better to remove them from this Earth than to leave them. The reasoning is that the Christian has gotten to a point where they have ultimately abandoned the principles of God. While salvation is not lost, God sees no other punishment except for death, as the wayward Christian can not do any good on the Earth, and is better off in Heaven.

 

 Romans 3:23 and James 2:10 both supports the idea of sins being equal in God's eyes, so that why I didn't go with the "Seven Deadly Sins" argument. And no, the Seven Deadly sins are never mentioned in the Bible and were created centuries later by the Catholic Church.

 

  In regards to the other argument, I don't believe that salvation can be lost by a Christian. John 3:16 and James 10:27 both support the idea that salvation is eternal and cannot be taken away. And as my last paragraph mentioned, I don't believe that some sins are greater than others, so the idea of committing certain sins will remove salvation is moot.

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Romans 3:23 and James 2:10 both supports the idea of sins being equal in God's eyes.

No, they don't. Just because all sin is bad, and all sin makes one guilty, doesn't mean that all sin is equal. Jesus said explicitly that some sin is worse than others on multiple occasions (John 19:11, Matt. 10:15, Mark 3:29).

Plus, would you really argue that it's just as bad when a little kid tells his parents a lie as when a man later takes that child and molests and murders him?

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No, they don't. Just because all sin is bad, and all sin makes one guilty, doesn't mean that all sin is equal. Jesus said explicitly that some sin is worse than others on multiple occasions (John 19:11, Matt. 10:15, Mark 3:29).

Plus, would you really argue that it's just as bad when a little kid tells his parents a lie as when a man later takes that child and molests and murders him?

 

  A good argument, though I still see James 2:10 as it seems. It says that if you commit one sin, you are guilty of them all. So if you tell your parent a lie, you are also guilty of murder in God's eyes. There is another Bible verse that I can't exactly remember, but it says that if you lust after someone in your heart, you have already commit adultery.

 

As for your verses you have added, here are some counter-arguments. John 19:11 could imply that Judas had the greatest 'amount' of sin. Multiple times in the Bible sin has been written as singular yet refers to many, so that could be the case. Matthew 10:15 could imply the same. As both cities have sinned yet this implied city will also have denied Jesus. I cannot give a good counter argument currently for Mark 3:29, however, I do see a contradiction if the way you seem to interpret it is true. Peter blasphemed 3 times against Christ yet he was used by God to save the 3000 and lead the early church. If this was truly an awful sin then God would have abandoned Peter all together, but he didn't

 

So turning your argument back on itself, is it worse for a man to cheat on his wife or for him to simply lust at a passerby. The Bible says that these are equal, yet they are wildly different on the human scale.

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A good argument, though I still see James 2:10 as it seems. It says that if you commit one sin, you are guilty of them all. So if you tell your parent a lie, you are also guilty of murder in God's eyes.

I'm not sure you're correctly parsing this. James 2:10 says that if you break one of the laws, you have broken the law altogether. That's not quite the same as saying if you break one law, you are guilty of also breaking unrelated laws. As an analogy, cheating on your taxes makes you a breaker of the law as a whole, a criminal just like a murderer is a criminal, but it doesn't make you guilty of triple homicide.

 

As for your verses you have added, here are some counter-arguments. John 19:11 could imply that Judas had the greatest 'amount' of sin. Multiple times in the Bible sin has been written as singular yet refers to many, so that could be the case.

First off, in context it is probably the Jewish authorities, not Judas, whom Jesus is speaking of. Anyway, your interpretation may be possible, but there's no obvious reason to prefer it.

I cannot give a good counter argument currently for Mark 3:29, however, I do see a contradiction if the way you seem to interpret it is true. Peter blasphemed 3 times against Christ yet he was used by God to save the 3000 and lead the early church. If this was truly an awful sin then God would have abandoned Peter all together, but he didn't

Peter didn't blaspheme the Holy Spirit; he denied Christ. Those two things are probably not the same thing, especially since in one of the passages Jesus said that whoever blasphemes the Son of Man can be forgiven, but not those who blaspheme the Spirit.

 

So turning your argument back on itself, is it worse for a man to cheat on his wife or for him to simply lust at a passerby. The Bible says that these are equal, yet they are wildly different on the human scale.

The Bible never says that they are equal. Jesus said that a man who looks on a woman to lust after he has already committed adultery in his heart. No one said that doing something in your heart makes you equally guilty as doing it in fact, only that both make you guilty. They are qualitatively the same, but not necessarily the same quantitatively.

Also, if all sins are equal, why are different sins punished more or less severely in the Old Testament law?

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This is going into a completely different discussion than what was actually the topic. We are heading down a rabbit trail over trivial things, while all the while missing what is actually being asked. And just to be clear, God sees sins differently than we see sin, so comparisons to the legal system are moot. Anyway, this argument is getting too much into the hypothetical for my tastes.

 

 So, what is your interpretation of the "Sin unto Death", I'll like to hear it.

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This is going into a completely different discussion than what was actually the topic. We are heading down a rabbit trail over trivial things, while all the while missing what is actually being asked.

No, this is directly relevant to the question at hand.

And just to be clear, God sees sins differently than we see sin, so comparisons to the legal system are moot. Anyway, this argument is getting too much into the hypothetical for my tastes.

I feel like these are just ways of lazily dismissing the lack of Biblical support for your view.

 

So, what is your interpretation of the "Sin unto Death", I'll like to hear it.

I'm not entirely decided, but I believe it refers to sin which is much more heinous and intentional than that which believers normally struggle with, such as murder, which goes unrepented. In that case, the church is required to discipline the person up to and including excommunication. Sins which would fall under this category I believe could be examples of "sin unto death."

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Just to be clear, we both have Biblical points backing us up. Neither of us have denied all the other persons claims with straight up facts. And we will likely never agree on this, always coming up with some other tidbit to throw at each other. You have convictions on this, and I admire someone with conviction.

 

  As I attempted to say before, this argument has lost my interests. And before I say something regarding your interpretation of the Bible, I am going to step up and end this.

 

 No hard feelings, but I see no end at hand.

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