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davida chi

Shameful for women to speak in church?!

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I am doing a research on women in Christianity, and I need everyone to be very honest in replying.

1Corinthians 14 vs 34- 35 says:

Let women keep silent in the churches...for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

Pls I need as many answers as possible.

Thanks.

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you see that is the problem. People think that just men God uses. No... God uses women too. The ministry is for women also. It is never shameful for women to speak in church. I know alot of women that God uses tremendously. A lot of people get this verse wrong.

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On 2/8/2017 at 10:35 AM, Nicene Nerd said:

So what do you think this verse means?

I remember when my pastor wife preached about this and i remember her saying that ministrys are for womens also bot just for men. IN the bible there are womens who have ministrries. Womens that God uses tremendously. 

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Cultural context!

  Women can speak in church without shame. Our culture and how we view "shame" and what's "shameful" is vastly different than that of the early Roman days.  Braids with gold were considered as gaudy as gold lame (la may) shorts or Lady Gaga's bubble dress days are today. Some things change.  The "law" this verse refers to is Jewish, most likely from the OT or Torah.

I will say it's rather rude and distracting to others be talkin' it up and taking selfies during preaching.  That's shameful behavior. From what I'm reading, this verse is asking for appropriate behavior in the church. Since women are more chatty, I can kind of see why it specifically calls out women for talking in church, but I think this is a prime example of the early church's Roman/Early AD culture expressed in the Bible.


 

Edited by Boogles

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On 2/10/2017 at 10:34 AM, Michi said:

I remember when my pastor wife preached about this and i remember her saying that ministrys are for womens also bot just for men. IN the bible there are womens who have ministrries. Womens that God uses tremendously. 

 

That doesn't tell us what the verse means.

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On 2/10/2017 at 11:43 PM, Boogles said:

Cultural context!

  Women can speak in church without shame. Our culture and how we view "shame" and what's "shameful" is vastly different than that of the early Roman days.  Braids with gold were considered as gaudy as gold lame (la may) shorts or Lady Gaga's bubble dress days are today. Some things change.  The "law" this verse refers to is Jewish, most likely from the OT or Torah.

I will say it's rather rude and distracting to others be talkin' it up and taking selfies during preaching.  That's shameful behavior. From what I'm reading, this verse is asking for appropriate behavior in the church. Since women are more chatty, I can kind of see why it specifically calls out women for talking in church, but I think this is a prime example of the early church's Roman/Early AD culture expressed in the Bible.


 

I had asked my mom this question on Saturday and she said the same thing. That is was meant only for that church since the women was too talktive. Not saying alot that all women should be ashame of talking in church. No all ministry are for womens but it was only mainly for that church. I forgot what church it was to.

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This is certainly not the first time I've heard the cultural context talk, and I wouldn't have posted if I was satisfied with the argument. If it was just a context issue, why would 1Timothy 2:11-15 exist:

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or assume authority over a man;she must be quiet...

Does it mean then that all the women in all the churches were talkative?

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On 2/14/2017 at 10:58 AM, davida chi said:

This is certainly not the first time I've heard the cultural context talk, and I wouldn't have posted if I was satisfied with the argument. If it was just a context issue, why would 1Timothy 2:11-15 exist:

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or assume authority over a man;she must be quiet...

Does it mean then that all the women in all the churches were talkative?

Because NT was all the same culture.  The Christian church of the day also followed the regular culture of that time period.  The aforementioned statements about braided hair being gaudy are also in this chapter, whereas they are not considered over the top in current western culture.

What version of the Bible are you using? 

Geneva Bible: 
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 I permit not a woman to teach, [n]neither to usurp (take over) authority over the man, but to be in silence.

ASV:

11 Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection. 12 But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man,



Also ASV, in the first verse of contention:
As in all the churches of the saints, 34 let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also [p]saith the law.

See that? The Law. The Law forbids them. Which could possibly be the Jewish Law, but i'll gladly be corrected by a history buff.


RSV: 
34 the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. 35 If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. 36 What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached?

Hey look, it's that Law again.

"Make love your aim, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3 On the other hand, he who prophesies speaks to men for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. (verses 1-5)....37 If any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord.38 If any one does not recognize this, he is not recognized. 39 So, my brethren, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues; 40 but all things should be done decently and in order."


so, is this chapter saying speaking in GENERAL is shameful, or is it only referring on how to behave in church with the speaking in tongues thing going on? Because, from what i'm reading, the verse is more so focused on how to handle a service with tongues being used, rather than actual conversation.

 

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Used NIV for the passage in 1Timothy.And I don't think you're getting me. The passage in Timothy gives us an idea of what the law being referred to is:

For Adam was formed first, then Eve.And Adam was not the one deceived, it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

So is this just contextual, given the reason for the command?

And may be check out the entry in wikipedia for women in Christianity.

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On 2/19/2017 at 7:06 AM, davida chi said:

Used NIV for the passage in 1Timothy.And I don't think you're getting me. The passage in Timothy gives us an idea of what the law being referred to is:

For Adam was formed first, then Eve.And Adam was not the one deceived, it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

So is this just contextual, given the reason for the command?

And may be check out the entry in wikipedia for women in Christianity.


Yeah but "Adam took and ate, and both their eyes were opened."  (loose translation) They both did it. Eve was tricked by Satan, then gave Adam the fruit, then Adam ate it. They both broke God's law. He told them to stay away from that tree. And did they? Nooooo.

Perhaps  I'm not, but you asked a question, and that's my answer. Given the cultural context of the NT and context of the original chapter, which refers to speaking in tongues mostly, I do not think it is shameful in this day and age for a woman to speak in church.  If you have qualms about it, then don't do it. -shrug-

Wikipedia is the MOST unreliable source of information about anything. :\ Anyone with a Wiki account can edit it to their hearts desire. There's a reason college professors tell you to not use it. The information is typically tainted. 

 


 

 

Edited by Boogles

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17 hours ago, Boogles said:

Wikipedia is the MOST unreliable source of information about anything. :\ Anyone with a Wiki account can edit it to their hearts desire. There's a reason college professors tell you to not use it. The information is typically tainted. 

1

Less so on academic topics, though. And lots of people editing over each other often leads to something of a more or less realistic equilibrium.

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4 hours ago, Nicene Nerd said:

Less so on academic topics, though. And lots of people editing over each other often leads to something of a more or less realistic equilibrium.

Interesting.

Still probably won't use it. 

Also, I thought this was in the Bible discussion area, but since I realize it's in debates, i'm ducking out now. 

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My professors advocate wikipedia.

School teachers will tell you to avoid it. However, this is not because wikipedia is unreliable--this is because school teachers want you to learn how to conduct independent research.

Edited by Chris-M

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On 2/27/2017 at 7:45 PM, Chris-M said:

My professors advocate wikipedia.

School teachers will tell you to avoid it. However, this is not because wikipedia is unreliable--this is because school teachers want you to learn how to conduct independent research.

Mine did not, they were vehemently against it.  *shrug*

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