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FYI Teenage Girls

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28 replies to this topic

#1
Pointer

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So if you have a bunch of Christian friends on facebook like I do, you've no doubt seen this article making it's rounds lately:

http://givenbreath.c...a-teenage-girl/

It's getting a lot of viral press right now. After reading the article, and if you read any of the comments you'll know that it's controversial. One of my other friends posted a link to this response:

http://jezebel.com/c...y-pe-1251831479

I'm not advocating either argument, but I do appreciate the fact that there was a response that went immediately where I did. The beach photos in the blog! Here's my thinking: If you take your kids to the beach, they're gonna see slutty girls. Girls in bikinis, girls making out with boys, etc... If you care *that* much about what your kids see, why are you taking them to the number one place for immodesty?

Also - girls are susceptible to half naked boys when it comes to sexual temptation. I kinda wanna scream foul and have her practice what she preaches.

So, thoughts?
-Chad

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#2
Kite

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Christian boys should be able to overcome temptation through the power of the Holy Spirit. But if they can't life continues. and vice versa.

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#3
LewieGee

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I wont harp on about why **** is a stupid word but either way, girls in bikinis are "slutty girls"?

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#4
Themeiwanttobe

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I'm tired of this whole spiel of mothers trying to sanctify other girls instagram accounts. Maybe they should teach their boys to not linger over their photos, rather than to pass judgement on a girl that they most likely have never met.
“I find it awkward to call myself a poet or a writer. If there are no walls there are no names. This is the morning after the dispersion, and the work of the morning is methodology: how to use oneself, and on what. That is my profession. I am an archaeologist of morning."

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#5
Sethre

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I agree that boy's should be able to overcome temptation with the God's strength. But I actually have an issue with how Katie titled her blog/topic thing. She said and I quote from the title 'Your tempting my perfect sons'. It's just plain dumb, Jesus was the only perfect son/person that ever walked the face of earth, and to say that your sons are perfect is to then say that they are equal to Jesus, but in fact they are not. Also, since she put in that she has 'perfect sons' she is basically blaming the girls wholly for being the ones who are in the wrong, but they are not. If her sons are lingering on these photos then they too are in the wrong and not the perfect sons she claims to have.

Now as I said before, I do believe Christian young men should be able to over come temptation with the help of God. But it's not easy, I've struggled with lust and other similar temptations for years and years, and I most likely am going to keep struggling with them until I die. But if I keep relying on God's help then I will be able to overcome these sins. But now that I said that I want to go back to the article, Katie's (the article author) sons are just like me, sinners. So I know they will struggle with these lustful temptations just like I am and have, but I also know that those boys and all boys can overcome their temptations.

Ok, thats my 2 cents on the topic. Let's see if others actually understand what I'm saying...
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#6
LewieGee

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I'm tired of this whole spiel of mothers trying to sanctify other girls instagram accounts. Maybe they should teach their boys to not linger over their photos, rather than to pass judgement on a girl that they most likely have never met.


Oh, this makes me smile.

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#7
kb5462

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"For one, it appears you're not wearing a bra."

Didn't realise it was the worst crime to not wear a bra. Oops, I've befouled that rule. Also, since when have pyjamas been classed as sexy? News flash: the vast majority of teenage girls wear ugly t shirts to bed that are about 9 sizes too big. Ain't nothing sexy about that.

She needs to educate her children properly about feelings and objectification. She also needs to take down the half-nude photos of her boys (and her daughter, that child can't be older than nine; shouldn't be posting that on a publicly-accessible site) to remove the blatant hypocrisy. Tut tut.

Also, why are they collectively FAcebook stalking? Anyone else find that creepy?

Oh, and I don't understand why wearing a bikini makes someone a "****"? I'm actually pretty appalled that people are using that word, to be fair.


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#8
Marley

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I was kind of put off by that article as well. I've made a point of *not* arguing with Christian Facebook posts lately but I was sorely tempted to post something tongue and cheek. I'm not the kind of person to blame my failings on other people and it irks me that others would do so.

I kinda liked this one. Though, I think it's a conversation to be had with daughters as well : Click Me!


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#9
Zabby

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Is a bra-less female who is wearing a T-shirt so you can't really see anything really attractive to males?


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#10
Selah

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I'm tired of this whole spiel of mothers trying to sanctify other girls instagram accounts. Maybe they should teach their boys to not linger over their photos, rather than to pass judgement on a girl that they most likely have never met.


Yes. You win an ice cream cone. :3

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#11
Zhouburn

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Didn't realise it was the worst crime to not wear a bra. Oops, I've befouled that rule.

That's ok Katy, I rarely wear a bra.

Yeah, the pictures in the post was the thing that made me mad. I'm sure she could have thought the photo selection out just a wee bit more.

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#12
Oliphaunt

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Is a bra-less female who is wearing a T-shirt so you can't really see anything really attractive to males?


No. In my experience, if the t-shirt isn't see-through than it is not a problem at all.

#13
Zabby

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No. In my experience, if the t-shirt isn't see-through than it is not a problem at all.

That's what I was thinking, like the only difference besides the ability to maybe see nipples would be sag, but if you can't see the nipples, I can't imagine sag being appealing and causing a guy to lust, but then again, my talking about this might cause a guy to lust, so... Maybe I should stop.


There is a trace of You in every alleluia... and it's Your sacred heart within me beating. Your voice within me singing out, for love of You. - Audrey Assad

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#14
Wesker

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Girls in t-shirts can be very sexy, but then again, I am a male who finds girls that aren't so obvious to be sexy. Looking trashy is not a turn on and sometimes less skin is sexier than more.

“...[T]his is love. I have my self-consciousness not in myself but in the other. I am satisfied and have peace with myself only in this other and I AM only because I have peace with myself; if I did not have it then I would be a contradiction that falls to pieces. This other, because it likewise exists outside itself, has its self-consciousness only in me; and both the other and I are only this consciousness of being-outside-ourselves and of our identity; we are only this intuition, feeling, and knowledge of our unity. This is love, and without knowing that love is both a distinguishing and the sublation of this distinction, one speaks emptily of it.” — G.W.F. Hegel


#15
Yves

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Darn it Chad. You've filled my world with not one, but two really unpleasant articles full of bad ideas :C

The Christian mom takes that really destructive attitude that boys are lust-machines without self control who have to be crushed under the authoritarian weight of a monk-like asceticism. But that just buries the problem under layers of repression and denial that never really translate to self-mastery in a world of lusty women who will, someday, break through the defenses.

But that's not why it's unpleasant. She's just smug. Full of herself. She has to take this pretentious I AM A GOOD CHRISTIAN (UNLIKE YOU) AND A COOL MOM tact, so contemptuous and sneering about the dirty morals of everyone who isn't her. I can't stand her. Poke her with a fork.

The self-proclaimed Jezebel, on the other hand, turns the whole thing into a prolonged rant about how people are entirely self-responsible beings, and that parental guidance and social pressure are never legitimate in any way ever because YOU'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS (not the circumstances you happened to be born into, like poverty or violence or crushing patriarchal norms-ohwait). The kind of norms that inform a household are important for socializing kids and deciding the kinds of people they'll eventually be! You can't just tell kids "women aren't objects (even though our society totally makes them out to be)" and expect them to imbibe that message noddingly. You have to train them, prepare them, instill an idea of morality. Sure, the shirtless boys thing is hypocritical, but that's beside the point, darn it.

But that's not why it's unpleasant. She's just smug. Full of herself. She has to wave the WE ARE ENLIGHTENED FEMINISTS (UNLIKE YOU) AND WE'RE SUPER CLEVER AND FUNNY flag, so contemptuous and sneering about "biblical brainwashing." I can't stand her. Poke her with a fork.

GRRRR.

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#16
Pointer

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^Best summation of both articles I've read.
-Chad

... your signature was so boring! Don't worry tho, I fixed it for you with this pretty purple tag! You can thank me later! ~Haley<3

#17
Wesker

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The Christian mom takes that really destructive attitude that boys are lust-machines without self control who have to be crushed under the authoritarian weight of a monk-like asceticism. But that just buries the problem under layers of repression and denial that never really translate to self-mastery in a world of lusty women who will, someday, break through the defenses.

For me, this is a crucial point that I am glad you brought to the forefront. As long as we truly believe that the pleasures licentiousness offer are rewarding, we are bound to transgress. When I was a teenager, I believed that the boorish sort of raw sexuality was the good. Yet, as I grew older and wiser, I began to understand differently. What has allowed me to control my sexuality was the realization that I do not want cheap sex. I do not desire the Jezebel. Sex without love is quite meaningless. It is just a drug with some really bad side-effects. I desire someone to share my soul with. And it is that mixture of self-mastery and self-control that has allowed me to overcome certain inadequacies in my own life. You see, when we create a taboo without a strong justification we are doomed. If we desire cheap sex, then we are bound to offend. That is why I think we need a certain level of self-mastery to effectively enact self-control. We can never fully overcome the temptation, because let's face it, baser pleasures always appeal to our illogical Id, but we can integrate a higher set of values in the core of our being that will help fight against hedonism.

I am merely reiterating what Aristotle wrote over two thousand years ago in his Nicomachean Ethics (which I hope you were thinking when you mentioned self-mastery), but it is as true today as it was two millennia in antiquity.

“...[T]his is love. I have my self-consciousness not in myself but in the other. I am satisfied and have peace with myself only in this other and I AM only because I have peace with myself; if I did not have it then I would be a contradiction that falls to pieces. This other, because it likewise exists outside itself, has its self-consciousness only in me; and both the other and I are only this consciousness of being-outside-ourselves and of our identity; we are only this intuition, feeling, and knowledge of our unity. This is love, and without knowing that love is both a distinguishing and the sublation of this distinction, one speaks emptily of it.” — G.W.F. Hegel


#18
LewieGee

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The self-proclaimed Jezebel, on the other hand, turns the whole thing into a prolonged rant about how people are entirely self-responsible beings, and that parental guidance and social pressure are never legitimate in any way ever because
But that's not why it's unpleasant. She's just smug. Full of herself. She has to wave the WE ARE ENLIGHTENED FEMINISTS (UNLIKE YOU) AND WE'RE SUPER CLEVER AND FUNNY flag, so contemptuous and sneering about "biblical brainwashing." I can't stand her. Poke her with a fork.

GRRRR.

As a feminist, Jezebel is trash :(

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#19
Radical Edward

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Jezebel is ridiculous, and the epitome of the White Feminist. They tend to ignore women of color, and seem to think female-on-male domestic abuse is a joke. I personally want nothing to do with them.

This woman's writing, however, makes me sick. Because, to be frank, it smacks of the kind of sexism that causes rape culture.

Rape culture is a huge feminist issue in America. Frankly, I think it's more important than the wage gap. And this post sort of struck me as planting the seeds of it.

A part of rape culture is victim blaming. In the case of male-on-female rape, the guilt is often shifted to the woman. You were drunk, you were out alone, you were wearing a short skirt. Maybe you shouldn't have done that. A woman doesn't even need to be particularly sexual. She just needs to be there, in the area, because women are sexualized from the get-go. You were wearing shorts and a tank top? Well, what were you expecting to happen?

This mother shifts the blame from her (allegedly) leery sons to the girl posting the photo. It doesn't matter if the girl posted it trying to be sexy; she's not forcing the boy to look at it. She's not slamming it in his face and forcing his eyelids open ala Clockwork Orange. But it's still the girl's fault. She's tempting them, these poor, pure boys, with her PJs and bra-less comfort and pouty lips. Her sons are helpless against the onslaught of arched backs and playful looks.

This aspect of rape culture is, or rather should be, considered wildly insulting to men, because it assumes that men are mindless lust machines who are incapable of seeing a woman as anything more than a playboy bunny if the slightest hint of skin is shown. But the patriarchy rarely sees it this way.

It starts young, my friends. It starts young. Women are sexualized before they're even pubescent, but if they act the way the media and culture says they should, they're insulted and demeaned from now till doomsday. But go ahead and try to be a virgin; they'll rake you across the coals for being a prude, though only when they want to sleep with you. Otherwise, you're hailed as some pure object instead of a person.

The Western view of women and female sexuality is ridiculous.

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#20
kb5462

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As a feminist, Jezebel is trash :(


Amen.


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