So recently I got into a relationship (yeah, yeah, congrats, whatever, haha) and this has immediately become the focus of a serious disagreement between my older sister and I.

She says that in a marriage, the guy should be the provider, protector, and spiritual head. Good things, and I agree with them. However, what I have a hard time seeing is that she thinks that the guy should already be all of those things before any relationship.

I see this as highly geared against younger people. For instance, I'm in college right now and still trying to figure out where exactly to take my life and future career. Am I provider ready? No. My sister sees this as a reason why I should drop the relationship, no other option, now. If marriage were to be brought up, today, and if I were to admit that I wasn't ready (which I would), then there is no reason for there to be any relationship at all.

She says I'm casually dating. Which is a term I don't want. I don't want to *casually* date. When I (the decision had been left up to me) decided to go ahead with the relationship, I waited until I felt completely at peace with the decision, and knew that I was serious about pursuing the relationship. This wasn't a spur of the moment thing by any means, on my part or on hers.

What I tried to argue was this: marriage, even if the gal and I knew for certain it was going to happen eventually, won't happen for a long while. Must I be ready to marry her, right now, if I want to be in a relationship at all? My sister thinks so. Can't these things, being the provider, protector, and spiritual head, develop during a relationship? She thinks not.

I have no dissenting views from absolutely anybody else. (Even my mom only says to take things slow. Interesting, because my sister touted her views as "how we've been taught.") Even my pastor admitted to me last week when I talked to him that he had hoped for something to happen between the gal and I! And that's along with a few other friends who have encouraged me to pursue the relationship (I even tried to corner a close friend into dissenting, but he refused to do so). But I've always been able to count on my sister to keep me grounded on some things. It's tearing me up that she's completely against the relationship (or me being in any relationship, period) right now. =\

I think you're fine. As long as she knows that you're not going to get married anytime soon. I think as long as you're serious about the relationship and you do take it slow, it is definitely fine. By the time you're ready to be a provider and such, you'll be way too busy to pursue a relationship! I think it's good to date in college, that way when you are all set up and ready to get married, it's easier to combine the two lives because you'll already have that in mind.

^^Pretty much agreed. I believe that was all that needs to be said. U'll be fine just keep steadfast in prayer and He will guide you.

What Bre said--and besides, it's your sister. Who says you have to listen or care about what she thinks, especially when both your parents and your pastor are in favor of you pursuing a relationship now?

I know you wouldn't want to turn her against you or anything, but my gosh, in no way is she in charge of your personal life.

I'd gently explain to her that pursuing a serious relationship =/= preparing to raise a family in the very near future. If marriage is brought up, it's not like you and your girlfriend couldn't choose to wait a while longer, if you still aren't ready for providing for a family.

Siblings can be... tough >_>

I, personally, don't think you should get into a relationship unless there is some sort of financial stability...

Just saying.

your sister is fail. thats about it

All women are gold-diggers.

I see no reason why both people cannot financially contribute in a relationship. That worked just fine for my husband and I. That all changed 2 years into our marriage when we decided to expand our family. Then I quit my job and became a homemaker. Even then, that is not the plan for many families out there. There are many women that continue to work outside the home after having children.

I am not sure why your sister is so adamant that you are set to be the provider now, when most likely that will not be a need for quite some time. I think the bottom line is to follow what you think is right for you and this lady. It seems extremely positive that your Pastor and Mom are giving the thumbs up here. Sounds like you love and respect your sister too, but maybe she should calm down a bit and let your relationship with this lady progress without so much pressure from her.

I wish you luck!

Zach, let me inform you of something.
Unless you can financially provide, spiritually lead, physically protect, responsibly care for, and support yourself, you have no business even thinking about dating any girl.

Your job is to be a husband one day. Dating is for men and men only. Not boys who can shave. Not boys who want to have fun and see where it goes. The girl your dating is more valuable than any piece of machinery or car that exists to her father more than likely. Her father would not approve of you just taking his truck without permission any more than he would approve of you taking his daughter without permission. Even further, her father wouldn't approve of you taking the truck if you weren't even competent enough to properly handle it, care for it, and ensure its safety while traveling. If a person is so much more infinitely valuable than any truck, and you aren't even willing, nor prepared to care for her, why on God's green Earth would you even consider taking a human into a relationship which is supposed to be a prequel to marriage.

I'm not saying any of this against you, I would say this to any being. If you're not able to support yourself, financially provide, spiritually provide, or even care for her because you can't care for yourself, you have absolutely no business dating her, or being involved with her, because you can't even take care of yourself.

I think if you're not ready for marriage you're not ready for a relationship in any way shape or form.

If your mom and pastor are behind you supporting you then say I go for it. You obviously see some kind of serious future with this girl and you don't want to date her just to do it casually so to me it sounds like your heart is in the right place. Marriage isn't something to be rushed into and if you think it's going in that direction one day then I say stay in the relationship because most people when they get engaged the engagement period is usually for awhile and it gives them time to be ready financially and what not so there is no perfect time line when to do it or rush into marriage. Take your time and let things unfold because there is no time line that says you have to do ABC or XYZ by a certain time.

This post has been edited by Glamour_Dollxoxo: Nov 6 2009, 02:17 PM

My husband and I are still both in college. He also has severe arthritis in his feet due to flat feet. He physically can't provide for us. That in NO WAY means we shouldn't be married.

Nor does it mean that if you can't get married tomorrow that you shouldn't pursue a relationship at all. If your goal is marriage, you've got it set. You're getting an education right now. That's an honorable thing. If your goal is marriage, then there's nothing to worry about. You aren't casually dating. So long as you are both working towards a life long relationship, there i snothign wrong with that. You may not be able to provide fo rher right now, but you aren't expected to yet. You are not married yet.

If you're going out with someone and splitting the tab, I ca see why some people would question the validity of that relationship.

Personally, I play it by ear. If I'm just going out drinking with a girl, well pay for ourselves; but if I'm getting dressed up for a nice restaurant, I'll open the car door, and pay for the meal.

Hello beloved,

I was asked the question by a Christian brother of mine, who has become a good friend to me, “Adam, can you give me some Scriptures that point to courting over dating?” That’s a great question. After all, do not the Scriptures address everything? Of course they do. In one way or the other, the Scriptures have the answer to every question.

However, to answer the questions, I don’t think that the Scriptures provide a clear-cut model of what courtship should look like. But I do believe that we are given some very good principles. From those principles, we need the wisdom of God to show us how to arrive at the goal. What is the goal? I’m so glad you asked. I’ll do my best to answer that before I finish writing this article.

When I have taught about courtship there are two main points that I try to hit. My first point is found in the Song of Solomon 2:7b, 3:5b and 8:4b. These verses say, “Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires.” God has given a set time in every individual when love should be awakened. That’s an obvious biblical principle. My second point is that a young person should, at all costs, flee sexual immorality and youthful lusts. That principle is found in 1 Corinthians 6:18 and 2 Timothy 2:22.

The Scriptures are very clear on these two points. However, you really have to dig in to find the answer of “How do we raise our children to fulfill these principles?” There is not an expositional sermon that I can give you on what the Bible says that courtship is. Much of what I have learned has come from the wisdom of those who have gone before me. I’m not always for the pragmatic approach, but at times, it does us well to look at those who have marked out the path. You can look at those who have set a good example and compare it to the bad examples set by modern American dating. Need I say more?

“Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires.” (Song of Solomon 2:7b, 3:5b and 8:4b) NIV

This is a very important point. I have found it gets skipped though. That is unfortunate. So is the fact that Christendom makes the mistake, far too often, of slapping Christian labels on worldly practices. I have known many who love to announce to the church that they are courting so and so. The problem is, they have skipped the most important step. What is that? Reaching biblical manhood or womanhood. And because a boy hasn’t reached manhood, he’s usually too much of a little boy to embrace any of the other principles. If you disagree, I dare you to ask a boy, in a relationship, if he had the nerve to talk to the girl’s parents before “asking her out.”

In the verse above, it is obvious that God has all of the intentions to awaken love in a young person. I can’t give you a certain age, but around twelve would be a good estimate of when this happens in most. When a young person begins to notice the opposite sex, this does not mean that it is time to begin the pursuit. No, this means that it is time to start the journey from childhood to adulthood. And, just so you know, adolescence is a lie from the pit of Hell. It is based off of a false evolutionary model which causes boys to stay boys until they are thirty five. In case you disagree, do a little research on the average age for computer gamers. You would think it would be a young teen. Nope, try early thirties.

I won’t address all that it takes to reach biblical manhood or womanhood in this article. That is an entirely different article. It is also a subject that many others have done a wonderful job of addressing. If you are interested, I would love to give you some resources. But, I’ll end this point with a word for all you boys and girls out there who want to become men and women of God. Paul said it best in 1 Corinthians 13:11 when he said, “When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.” Beloved, there comes a time to put away all of the childish things. You want to be treated like a adult? Then, stop acting like a child.

“Flee from sexual immorality.” (1 Corinthians 6:18a) NIV
“Flee also youthful lusts” (2 Timothy 2:22a) KJV

Beloved, all through scripture we are told to battle with sin. Paul tells us in Ephesians 6:11 to stand against the devil’s schemes. In James 4:7, we’re told to resist the devil and he will flee. With Christ, we can stand and fight the devil. He is no match. However, Scripture tells us to “flee from sexual immorality” and to “flee youthful lusts”. You know what that says to me? Our own flesh is more of a match for us, than Satan himself. We shouldn’t try to stand and fight our lusts. We should flee any opportunity to feed them. That doesn’t mean to flee the opposite sex, but you should flee any opportunity to be alone with the opposite sex.

That’s where we use a biblical principle to provide a model of reaching the goal without falling. This model has been mapped out by many others, in generations past. And you won’t have to go back too far. If you do your homework, you will find that the practice of dating is a modern phenomena. You can also trace the breakdown of the home, in America, to the time when dating was embraced. After all, is the practice of dating not just the practice of divorce? It teaches us that if things aren’t going well, just move on and find a better one.

One of the most important principles in courtship, other than when a young person can begin courting, is the principle that the two courting should never be alone together. Well, before I say “never”, let me explain. The raging hormones of two young people of the opposite sex, who are attracted to one another, are too strong for something not to happen if they are alone together for an extended period of time. I could almost guarantee that.

However, I believe it is up to the parents of the two to established the rules of engagement. I think a time and place should be provided for them to spend time together without being bothered. But that would need to take place at one of their houses with the parents being home, and never behind a closed door. Also, I would say that going to dinner, late in the courtship process, might be OK. However, I don’t think they should ride alone in a car together. You might say that this doesn’t show much trust in your children. Well, you’re right. But I am not called to trust my children. I am called to protect them and raise them in the fear of God.

So, those are just a couple of the Scriptures that I believe point us toward a good model of how to bring a young man and young woman together, in holy matrimony, without their purity being compromised. And I believe that that is the goal. We need to protect them and show them how this can be done.

There are definitely many other Scriptures that point us toward this model. Hopefully, as time allows, God will give me the grace to write on each of these. Not just for you, but for me as well. I don’t know it all. That’s for sure. But I have set my heart toward knowing all that I can about raising my children to be men of integrity and women of virtue. May God give me the grace to do so.

And may He do the same for you.

In Christian love,
Adam Tennant

The above post while nice is a completely idealistic, where you come from a loving devout home that will hold you accountable all the while looking out for your best interests. However, that isn't how the majority of Christians are raised so it really isn't applicable at all to a vast section of the population. It also, does nothing to address the post at hand, since the question isn't about courting vs. dating (Both of which are modern concepts by the way since in Biblical times neither occurred).



Where is this found in scripture? How can anyone say with 100% certainty that God doesn't want young people to grow into marriage? The argument that you need to be 100% ready financially for marriage before entering into a relationship is one I find more materialistic than anything else. It removes God from the equation and relies on very modern concepts of fiscal stability (which are subjective) to say when one is ready for marriage. So I would say no your sister isn't correct in her assertion that you must be financially ready to provide for a family (she also seems to be completely leaving out your girlfriends financial situation, for all we know she could be a billionaire ready to support you both) because if God is calling you to something he can make it happen. If God calls you to enter a relationship, and then get married, even if you aren't financially stable by the worlds definition He can still make sure you get by happily.