Theist/Atheist Debate

[AquinasD]

One of the more strictly adhered to rules on this forum is the lack of ability of any members, Christian or otherwise, to debate God's existence. I think this is a problem because we have atheist members who would only be too willing to have a serious discussion on whether or not God exists, and it is certainly within the ability of certain members on this board (thinking of myself and ZME) to defend the Christian doctrine that God does exists, and who He is.

That such a fundamental issue isn't allowed to be discussed is, I think, a serious problem. It makes the forum look like we're afraid of atheistic arguments, which I think quite frankly is an overestimation of such arguments.

I think there ought to be, at the very least, a special thread for this very debate. I think the way to do this is;

1) Appoint a moderator to oversee this thread (who would probably also be the chief theistic arguer)

2) Make the thread invite-only initially, and test-entry later (this is to cut down on repeated arguments and soap boxing)

I really believe there should be such a thread. Already threads that touch on whether or not God exists are practically entering into the very argument that isn't supposed to be had.

Yes, I know that if a person really wanted to debate God's existence, they could go elsewhere, but this would provide apologetics to those members who couldn't now make a good argument for God's existence. Thus, I think CTF should be very interested in having such a special thread.

What do you think? I really hope this goes further than the failed theology forum attempt.

[Pointer]

I can see where you're coming from Bryce. I do think that the Seekers of Christ forum is somewhat designed for this purpose, at least from a more abstract view. There are several potential problems. I believe it would require excessive moderation due to it's nature. There's a strong possibility flamer's and other internet vandals would take advantage of the thread to just post criticisms. In addition to that; how many arguments can there really be? I feel that many of the same discussions would just repeat after a while.

Anyways, an admin will have to chime in on this. *passes buck*.

[Zabby]

I like this idea, and I would be willing to moderate it if it was nessicary.

[Yoda]

One of the more strictly adhered to rules on this forum is the lack of ability of any members, Christian or otherwise, to debate God's existence. I think this is a problem because we have atheist members who would only be too willing to have a serious discussion on whether or not God exists, and it is certainly within the ability of certain members on this board (thinking of myself and ZME) to defend the Christian doctrine that God does exists, and who He is.

That such a fundamental issue isn't allowed to be discussed is, I think, a serious problem. It makes the forum look like we're afraid of atheistic arguments, which I think quite frankly is an overestimation of such arguments.

I think there ought to be, at the very least, a special thread for this very debate. I think the way to do this is;

1) Appoint a moderator to oversee this thread (who would probably also be the chief theistic arguer)

2) Make the thread invite-only initially, and test-entry later (this is to cut down on repeated arguments and soap boxing)

I really believe there should be such a thread. Already threads that touch on whether or not God exists are practically entering into the very argument that isn't supposed to be had.

Yes, I know that if a person really wanted to debate God's existence, they could go elsewhere, but this would provide apologetics to those members who couldn't now make a good argument for God's existence. Thus, I think CTF should be very interested in having such a special thread.

What do you think? I really hope this goes further than the failed theology forum attempt.[/b]

I really don't think this is needed. Firstly, it is too subjective to cut out members who use lousy arguments or soapboxing - this thread appears to have the same issues of "invite only based on knowledge" that the theology forum idea had.

Secondly the rules stopping members from debating Christianity, promoting atheism, or bashing Christianity/God are more or less here based on past experiences. We do not claim (officially) to be a neutral site; and it really has nothing to do with us looking afraid of evangelical atheism.

Not to mention it would be a huge hassle to moderate.

[Jaycawbz]

If the Theology idea won't pass, neither will this one.

[AquinasD]

I really don't think this is needed. Firstly, it is too subjective to cut out members who use lousy arguments or soapboxing - this thread appears to have the same issues of "invite only based on knowledge" that the theology forum idea had.[/b]

Hence the thread would only at first be invitation only, then it could be opened to all who would be willing to pass a test.

Secondly the rules stopping members from debating Christianity, promoting atheism, or bashing Christianity/God are more or less here based on past experiences. We do not claim (officially) to be a neutral site; and it really has nothing to do with us looking afraid of evangelical atheism.[/b]

A discussion on whether or not God exists is better than not having the discussion. It comes out in other ways already, just see the "Why are you Atheist?" thread.

Not to mention it would be a huge hassle to moderate.[/b]

An issue I already resolved through my solution of appointing a moderator who would also be the chief theistic arguer.

These aren't issues that can't be easily resolved.

[Zabby]

Hence the thread would only at first be invitation only, then it could be opened to all who would be willing to pass a test.[/b]

If we're worried about which atheists to invite, I'm sure that we could come up with some respectful atheists. We could even put a post count cap on it or time senstive thing. As for the theists, I don't see a reason to limit them. Yes, some poeple posting might not post in an advanced debating style, but it would be the same thing that exists in the Christian debates. And you guys could just naturally weed people out by using fancy words and stuff like that.

An issue I already resolved through my solution of appointing a moderator who would also be the chief theistic arguer.[/b]

I doubt this would happen. The current staff would have to take up the job. We are not about to appoint a lim mod just for on thread/debate section. Although, I'm sure you can find a few mods who exist now wh would be willing to pick up the work, and if it did go out of control or was too much of hasstle to mod, we could always take it away. I don't see the issue with trying it.

[AquinasD]

I doubt this would happen. The current staff would have to take up the job. We are not about to appoint a lim mod just for on thread/debate section. Although, I'm sure you can find a few mods who exist now wh would be willing to pick up the work, and if it did go out of control or was too much of hasstle to mod, we could always take it away. I don't see the issue with trying it.[/b]

I'm not too sure. To be honest, there's only a few people on here who I would trust to be a "chief theistic arguer" in the sort of vein that could discuss this with atheists. There's ZME, but I know that he at times can be extremely busy. As for other mods, I don't see it happening.

Yes, I understand I might be the only person who could make the best arguments for theism on this board, and so this implicates me as the lim mod for the thread. So be it. I don't care to be a mod past this thread at the time, but I would be wholly willing to moderate the one thread, because I think it is a really important issue that we really ought to let be tackled.

[Aeterna]

I can give you an easy pool of names:

afriendlyatheist
sebAss
Seriyan
Max Power
ThatOneGuy

As far as I know, they are all atheists/agnostics, they're all intelligent, they're all good debaters, and they do not have a habit of breaking the rules. I know I've omitted quite a few, but I want to make sure that this idea isn't rejected on the basis of a lack of candidates.

[Zabby]

I'm not too sure. To be honest, there's only a few people on here who I would trust to be a "chief theistic arguer" in the sort of vein that could discuss this with atheists. There's ZME, but I know that he at times can be extremely busy. As for other mods, I don't see it happening.

Yes, I understand I might be the only person who could make the best arguments for theism on this board, and so this implicates me as the lim mod for the thread. So be it. I don't care to be a mod past this thread at the time, but I would be wholly willing to moderate the one thread, because I think it is a really important issue that we really ought to let be tackled.[/b]

Bryce, no offense intended here, but I'd hate to see you have to make judgement calls about who is "smart" enought to post in a particular forum. It would cause a whole lot of hastle, and I don't think any of the staff (or anyone on this forum) is qualified enough to make that call.

Also, I doubt anyone will go for the idea of making a lim mod purely for this subforum. It would just cause unnessiary burocracy and we would also have to rework a totally different way to communicate with you because I doubt you would get acess to the staff section just for runing one subforum. It would cause a lot of inefficently in the fact that you'd have to be in almost constant contact with the other staff via PM or something like that. It would be a whole not easier to have the staff already here running it.

And if it's just one thread, why don't we have a sticky at the top of debates like the other CTF "offical" debates?