Actually, everyone was still vegi after the fall of man. It was not until after the flood of Noah that God gave the animals as food to us.

Then on the note of the second. That all works well and good, until we go and muck it all up by creating these cattle farms where the cows are placed in far too small of a pen and are rather easy to herd in. I might also mention that this type is even less healthy due to the living conditions. Free ranged cattle are much healthier for those of you who still eat meat but are concerned about health. That goes the same for any meats. Always go free ranged. That is if you do not have a hunter in the family to bring in game meat. That is the best.

This post has been edited by Jemini: Mar 19 2009, 05:20 AM

I'm not technically a vegetarian- I will only eat chicken or turkey- no pork or beef. I don't really like the texture of beef or the flavor of pork. I usually snack on oatmeal, apples, cereal, candy (lol I do have a sweet tooth), popcorn, pretzels, cheese,etc. But not all at once .

Basically I get most of my energy from carbs and my protein I get from cheese, beans, or nuts.

I don't think everyone should turn vegan of vegetarian...otherwise how would I watch Bobby Flay get beaten by Richmond's Buzz and Ned's at the U of R campus in a bbq cookoff? lol

I "tried" to be a vegetarian years ago. I quit after realizing how disgusting ham and cheese sandwiches are without the ham.

Really, I love vegetables and fruits and stuff, especially when you make them all different ways and use them in all different dishes, like we do in our family. But I love my steak way too much to ever be a vegetarian.

Apparently I've not posted here yet.

I've been a vegetarian for almost two years. Not that long, but it seems like ages to me. My excuse in the beginning was health reasons, but after that got better I didn't want to go back. Meat has never been very appealing to me and so after I proved I could live just as well without it, I didn't want to touch it. And I suppose regarding it as taboo for so long heightened my distaste, so that now the look, texture, smell and taste of meat is all repulsive for me. (Mentally, I feel I'm gnawing on a corpse, and that doesn't help.)

Friends and family have tried to get me to eat it, using the argument "The animal isn't going to come back to life if you don't eat it!" That's what a lot of people around me don't seem to understand. I have no moral convictions against eating meat (in general.) I just don't like it.

im a vegetarian

never mind

This post has been edited by God-Sent: Mar 26 2009, 03:17 AM

I absolutely HATE factory farming. It is not right, and certainly not as God had wished us to treat the beautiful creatures he created.

I also absolutely HATE the Animal Liberation Front and PETA. Awful, terrible, terrorist organizations without a speck of logic or reason in them. Animals should not have freedom or liberation. That idea in itself is ridiculous and absurd.

Animals DO deserve protection and rights in the sense of freedom from abuse and neglect.. but not "liberation". I hate animal rights activists almost as much as the animal abusers themselves. Who I really respect are those working towards animal PROTECTION laws, not animal rights. They are very very opposite, and the first is a much more reasonable, honorable, and respect worthy goal and action. The goal is animal welfare, not animal rights. This is where the ALF and PETA have gone all wrong. (And don't even get me started on PETA.. they may love the cows and chickens, but they are allll for killing thousands of cats and dogs.)

My sister is a vegetarian and would like to go vegan one day if she can afford it, but like me, shares my hatred for the ALF and PETA.

I agree all the way. Protection, not "liberation".

Awwwwwwwwww.



Yea man, totally whack! We should just round them all up and put 'em in cages--it'll be okay because we'll feed them and make sure they have at least a square foot to move around in--thus not "abusing" or "neglecting" them, and making it perfectly okay! Woohoo!

Perhaps you missed this part of my post:
"I absolutely HATE factory farming. It is not right, and certainly not as God had wished us to treat the beautiful creatures he created."

You are speaking to the person who has worked in animal shelters and is very involved in animal rescue. When it comes to animals and the amount of things I actually do to help prevent, end, and stop abuse, neglect and pet homelessness, there likely is not a person on this forum that does more than me, though bless all those who I know and do not yet know that are able to do far more than I ever could to help animals.

So, I hope you rethink that ridiculous, absurd, mocking statement you made regarding my post. I love animals - doesn't matter the size or shape. They all deserve compassion and a humane end if they are to be consumed for nutrients.

But the fact of the matter is, animals are not people. They do not have morals and the cognitive ability to have "liberation". Animals are either wild, or owned. And part of owning an animal is caring for it in every way that it needs. Animal ownership is about protecting an animal that has been domesticated or raised in a way that it otherwise could not SURVIVE without human intervention. As I said, the concern should be laws regarding ANIMAL WELFARE, not animal rights.

I think I'll keep my little mocking statement.



If an animal cannot survive without human intervention, it is because human intervention has made it that way.

So be it. I cannot make people be reasonable.

So... I suppose it would be sooooo much more HUMANE to just dump them off on the side of the roads and let them live wild and free. Never mind that they can't survive without humans. And it is too cruel to humanely kill them and consume them. So let them die a slow death. Nothing inhumane about that. /end sarcasm

Animals deserve compassion and good quality of life. They deserve to be cared for in every way that they need. I may not advocate and demand all farmers to bring all the cows in and let them sleep on beds, but they don't deserve what they get in factory farms. I, for one, never advocated that animals should ever be treated badly. Where you got that idea, simply because I say animals don't deserve liberation or don't believe owning animals is cruel, is absolutely beyond me.

Reality is - there are domesticated animals, and you are either FOR protecting them and having animal welfare laws or you are FOR KILLING all of them until they no longer exist, because it is soooo cruel to own animals. (Oh, please come tell all my animals that I saved that it was very cruel of me to have helped them, saved them, or raised them and given them a warm place to sleep and feed them better food that I even eat.)

Hey guys, it is possible to disagree in a polite and civil manner.
Please try... please...

i am vegan. i went vegetarian about a year ago, and now have been vegan for about a monthh.
i definetely have a 'fierce passion and hatred against the food industry'
and i am against all uses of animals for food, clothing, and science etc.
i am religious, and i would never accept the argument that God put animals here for us to use like that!

Yea, because that's exactly what I was implying by mocking your "animals should not have freedom" statement.



But they don't deserve freedom, right? Freedom is just asking too much.



Hold on, let me find the part where I said you were advocating that mistreatment of animals.



Why so absolute?

I don't think you fully realize what exactly you portray by saying "no animals should have freedom". When I state my objection to that, I do so because saying such a thing is completely ridiculous--you're basically saying humans are the only beings that deserve to be free-- and you will not be able to give one good reason as to why humans are the only beings exempt from being bound. "Animals" does not just mean domesticated pets, fyi.

Also, I do not know what it is I said that made you go off on a tangent about "dumping animals on the roads". I am not saying domesticated animals (dogs and cats, mainly) should just be disowned by their owners and be let "free". I think every animal should be accommodated to their own needs (big dogs needs lots of room for exercise, long haired dogs need grooming, etc.) Did I say anywhere it was wrong for people to own pets? Nope. While I do not agree with the idea of domesticating wild animals in order to please humans, it is too late for animals such as dogs and cats--but I never said we should let them all go "free"--and that is because a good majority of pets are about as "free" as you or me.

Chained dogs, fish, birds, etc, are a different matter, however.

All I have to say for anyone that truly supports PETA - I imagine you do it for that you love animals. We have that in common, and my hatred for PETA and Ingrid is for very very good reason. Please, please do the research on PETA before supporting them. If you love animals and know what they truly do to "help" them, you could no longer morally support them.

http://www.nathanwinograd.com/index.php?s=...amp;x=0&y=0

I only agree with Peta to the extent of anti-animal cruelty and animal rights. I think their general cause is good, and that is why I somewhat support them. I don't think I've ever given them money, and the most I've done to physically support them was sign a "End the Seal Hunt" petition (I was bored).

I've heard that Peta had done some bad things; but as long as they don't condemn the animals they take in within a cruel manner, and continue using painless injections, I have bigger things to worry about in the "animal rights" section. What the heck are they going to do with all the animals they get in? At least they dispose of them as humanely as possible, unlike some other places I've seen.

I've been vegeterian since I was 11 and aspire to be vegan.
My parents wont allow me now, so hopefully when I go to university I'll be able to become vegan.

I've worked in animal shelters and am very involved in animal rescue. I'm full aware the idea of "no kill" is imaginitive and hopeful, and not always a reality. However, there is no reason that such a prominant, well supported, wealthy group such as PETA would have to automatically kill over 90% of the animals they bring into their "shelters" or care. If even the worst of shelters and still adopt out a high percentage than 5-10%, then there is no reason PETA cannot either. For that fact alone, we can know that PETA is a dirty, uncaring animal rights group that is trying to end the ownership of all companion animals. They truly wish for totalitarian animal liberation - and Ingrid has been known to say this out loud. Somehow she sees owning animals as pets even when given love, companionship and proper veterinarian care as cruel and animal abuse. But for some reason, it is no more cruel to needlessly kill them.

Sure, they are dead by injection, not a beating, nor anything that could be labeled as true abuse, but the very fact is what they stand for, what they believe in, and what they are doing is not what they SHOULD be doing for all animals, if their slogan and motto is true. It goes deeper than a high percentage kill rate in the animals they take in - but to the ethics of it all. They are all for saving and never eating meat, but all for killing. How can they be for both?

There are certainly some causes that PETA supports that I may also support, however I'd never give an inch to even saying I may support PETA. No, we may sometimes support the same causes, but I never support them. They are not worthy of such support.

Not to defend PETA, but I know some of their supporters encourage the extinction of domestic animals. (Livestock, domestic cats etc.) The idea is that as long as these animals are subjects of humans, they will never prosper and be free. Also there are too many companion animals that are abused and used, and I for one wholly support the total abolition of animal exploitation. Whether treated with care or not, companion animals are viewed as property and resources.

I would never support releasing the animals into the street to wonder freely because that would be absurd and irresponsible. I certainly agree with the notion that we should care for those nonhumans we've brought into existence, but we should stop causing any more to come into existence. My central position is centered around the idea that we have no justification for using nonhumans—however “humanely” we treat them.

Many of you scoff at the idea of abolishing companion animals, but they are - by definition of the law- our "property" which directly opposes the idea of abolishing animal slavery. If we choose to place a higher value on them and view them as a part of the family the law will support this just as it will support according your "property" a lower value where they (your "property") are subjected to live their life as a guard dog who receives minimal protection and nourishment. This is antithetical to the main thesis of animal liberation.

It does not matter if you treat a companion animal as a child since a child will eventually become a full functioning member of society whereas domestic animals are not fully a part of the nonhuman world nor fully part of our world. Thus they remain forever in a netherworld of vulnerability, dependent on us for everything that is of relevance to them. Their lives are dictated by us and they ultimately exist for us. This is slavery and it is unnatural.

One final point to make is the fact that the natural world is exploited so we can create commodities for companion animals that would not exist otherwise. Many "pet" food companies are destructive and exploit animals. Iams is one of these companies. They test their products on dogs and other animals so we can feed our slaves. All of this is interlinked in one viscous cycle that doesn't need to exist. The desire to have a "pet" is a selfish one. Domestication of nonhuman animals is unjustifiable and needs to be opposed.

This post has been edited by Gathering: May 4 2009, 07:09 PM

I tried being vegan... but then I couldn't have my Starbursts or Jell-O because of the gelatin. I quickly stopped.

Seriously? There are perfectly good alternatives. I promise you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I haven't been vegan my entire life and I can remember what Starbursts taste like, and I can assure Mamba fruit chews taste exactly like them.



There are also jell-o alternatives that I enjoy greatly.

This post has been edited by Gathering: May 9 2009, 09:31 AM

I used to be vegetarian but I got VERY sick!!

I don`t eat meat, but I do eat eggs and dairy.


I`ve been on/off vegetarian for the past few years, but only eating chicken or turkey as meat. I`m trying to not eat meat anymore - the only issue is sometimes the only food available for me to eat contains meat, as my family eats "white meat".

Since last fall I've stopped eating beef. I've eaten some bites of beef a few times since, though.

It's kind of a silly reason, but I really love cows haha. I'm from the city, but I'm a country girl at heart. So I enjoy going to state fairs and seeing all the livestock. The cows always are my favorite and I can spend hours in the cattle barn...so now that I've officially made myself seem like a wacko (lol) i'll carry on to my point. I actually find cows really amazing because of how they provide so much. I think seeing animals such as those really show you God's amazing creation. I think it's that I appreciate their purpose too much to actually use it. So that makes no sense, but in my mind it does.

Anywho, the only meat I actually eat is chicken and turkey. Sometimes I can't eat either because I have moments where the thought of meat grosses me out. That usually happens if there's a piece of bone in my food or something.