Paige Elizabeth Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Okay, so I kinda thought about this earlier in service. All my life I've been raised as sex before marriage is bad. Sex is bad. Blah blah blah. So what happens when you get married? Like personally, I'd feel like I sinned because everyone's always told me it's bad. D: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicene Nerd Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I was raised likewise, but my marriage hasn't been guilt-ridden so far. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buoyancy Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Sex in general is bad? Who told you that? o.o While I too was raised in the "sex before marriage is bad", my parents teaching of it was "Sex is a beautiful thing God gives to married couples." They never cared to elaborate further. XD But, yeah. I've always been shown that the intimate aspect of a relationship is a GOOD and beautiful thing.(However, imagining my parents doing that will forever make me feel squicky.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAG Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Marriage is a sleepover with your best friend every night. Sex is supposed to be light-hearted, exciting, intimate, bonding, etc. all good things. Nothing sinful about it. Just do it in a godly context - marriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesker Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) You all know I think sex before marriage is permissible in the biblical literature. I am merely concerned with sex being devalued through a hedonistic, hookup culture. If you are using sex as a drug you devalue it. If you use it to objectify others you devalue it. If you make love in a place of love with someone you love, God bless. Legalistic rules like no sex before marriage have never made any sense to me, and I do not believe it makes sense in a biblical framework either. St. Paul replaces legalism with Love, pure and simple. Edited January 6, 2014 by Wesker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAG Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) You all know I think sex before marriage is permissible in the biblical literature. I am merely concerned with sex being devalued through a hedonistic, hookup culture. If you are using sex as a drug you devalue it. If you use it to objectify others you devalue it. If you make love in a place of love with someone you love, God bless. Legalistic rules like no sex before marriage have never made any sense to me, and I do not believe it makes sense in a biblical framework either. St. Paul replaces legalism with Love, pure and simple. Yeah, don't listen to this OP. Paul condemned fornication. Edited January 7, 2014 by JAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicene Nerd Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Yeah, don't listen to this OP. Paul condemned fornication. Now, now, James, while certainly I agree with you, we both know the argument isn't that simple. There is certainly at least some room for debate on the original meaning of porneia, which Paul condemned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kb5462 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Sex and marriage are intricately linked; they go together like... two-things-that-go-together (wanted to have an example there, and suddenly had a mind-blank). Sex is made for the context of marriage, and it is a good, blessed gift between spouses. The best place to look to see this is way back in Genesis when God created sex. This is because sex has, to use Leon Kass' phrase, an "inherently procreative teleology". Let's face it, biologically and at its base level, sex is about making babies. The place for having babies, Biblically, is marriage; we can tell this by God's first commandment to Adam and Eve: "Be fruitful and multiply" (Genesis 1:22). Ergo, sex in marriage is good because children are a blessing (said WAY too many times in the Bible to count!). However, sex isn't only for procreative purposes (obviously, because there are couples who can't have children/are too old to have children/choose not to have children - although the last one is a debate for another time). Sex is also a good gift from God because it binds spouses together; it is for the purpose of spousal intimacy. If you look in the Bible, when husband and wife come together, it is termed "knowing one another". It's the most intimate form of getting to know your spouse, hence why God calls it becoming "one flesh" (Genesis 2:24). Remember how God looked on what He had created and called it good (all throughout Genesis 1)? Sex didn't just come about one day by a bit of trial and error It is a good creation, but like everything, it is open to abuse, so God gives a context for it. But, He's also a good and gracious God and understands that we are human beings prone to being tempted; premarital sexual errors are forgiven and we are renewed when we confess and repent. After all, God makes all things new Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesker Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) Now, now, James, while certainly I agree with you, we both know the argument isn't that simple. There is certainly at least some room for debate on the original meaning of porneia, which Paul condemned. It might be well to also remember that I am not trying to twist the definition of πορνεία as a justification for hedonism, or anything like the sex-positive movement preaches. I am a really conservative progressive. It is merely that I believe alternative forms of relationships are sanctioned in the biblical literature, such as concubinage. Edited January 7, 2014 by Wesker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicene Nerd Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 It might be well to also remember that I am not trying to twist the definition of πορνεία as a justification for hedonism, or anything like the sex-positive movement preaches. I am a really conservative progressive. It is merely that I believe alternative forms of relationships are sanctioned in the biblical literature, such as concubinage. Yes, John, and that is why I still respect you (among other reasons). To be perfectly honest, I do feel like the case for monogamy being the unbreakable Biblical demand is difficult, though I think it does work in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAG Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Now, now, James, while certainly I agree with you, we both know the argument isn't that simple. There is certainly at least some room for debate on the original meaning of porneia, which Paul condemned. Nope. It was clear to the Jewish audience. Sexual immorality has always included fornication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesker Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Nope. It was clear to the Jewish audience. Sexual immorality has always included fornication. You are simply making stuff up now. The Talmud, the Jewish Oral Torah, includes concubinage as a form of acceptable relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAG Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 You are simply making stuff up now. The Talmud, the Jewish Oral Torah, includes concubinage as a form of acceptable relationship. No, it is you who make things up. You consistently try to 'out-interpret' entire teams of PhD holding biblical scholars who provide the translated bible. The problem is you try to make the bible say what you want instead of letting it speak for itself. Your views on sex are, as you self proclaim, heretical. They are false, dangerous, and I can't - for the life of me - understand why the staff lets you preach things like, "sex before marriage is biblical." The accountability is non-existant despite the fact we have rules in place such as: 4. Advertisement of other religions or belief systems (including Atheism) is not allowed. What you preach, here being a prime example, is not Christianity but hedonism covered in sophistry. It is not the same religion by miles - even though you proclaim Catholicism you disregard its tenants willingly - to the point you become proud to have the Church deem your marginal beliefs as heretical. The hubris is astounding. OP, do not listen to his advice, go talk to a pastor you trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Captain Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I was just thinking about the definition of "hubris" and I thought of you, JAG. I'm not being funny. I legitimately thought about you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicene Nerd Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 James, John, please end this discussion now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesker Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 James, John, please end this discussion now. Your wish is my command. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troubled singer Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Honestly, I was raised in a household where I was taught that sex was bad too. Yeah, my parents told me I *could* have sex when I got married, but as a teenager I was so repressed, and so sexually naive that I barely even knew my own body - in that context. During my childhood and young teenage years it was always drilled into me that sex was bad. Period. So, when I left Chrisianity and became an atheist, I still had those thoughts and indoctrinations following me around. I, personally, don't see a problem with having sex before marriage as long as it's done smart, consensually, and safe. It took me a long time to get to where I was comfortable with having sex with my fiance (tmi?) even as an atheist. Not only because we weren't married, but beause I had been taught time and time again simply that sex was bad. It's hard, it really is, to know what exactly you're supposed to be doing. But, find your own truth, and never stop asking questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Teenagers, listen to me. Despite what you may have read above or heard elsewhere, you need to realize that God requires sexual purity from us all. Our bodies belong to God. Sex before marriage is a sin. It's hard to argue with Scripture.1 Corinthians 6:18-20 - "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body."We all need to make good choice to stay pure and when we are determined and committed we can all stand strong (with God's help). 1 Peter 2:11 - "Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul."Protecting purity in marriage begins long before the wedding. It's your job now, actually, to protect yourself. Hebrews 13:4 - "Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. We need to all be careful to not even get close to sexual impurity. Sexual immorality (including pre-martial sex) is wrong and it needs to be avoided. It is sinful, period.Galatians 5:19-20 - "The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions."Ephesians 5:3 - "But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. It's important to realize that we avoid immorality by pursing what is pure and holy, as declared in 2 Timothy 2:22.... ("righteousness, faith, love, and peace." Now let's say you're already sexually active prior to marriage...uh oh...you're in trouble, right? Wrong! The good news is that there is no sin that God will not forgive completely. You see that promise of His all throughout the Bible in the Old and New Testaments. The blood of Jesus covers it all, thankfully! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesker Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 The blood of Jesus covers it all, thankfully! This is something we can definitely agree on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 This is something we can definitely agree on! I never thought we'd see the day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kb5462 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Teenagers, listen to me. Despite what you may have read above or heard elsewhere, you need to realize that God requires sexual purity from us all. Our bodies belong to God. Sex before marriage is a sin. It's hard to argue with Scripture. 1 Corinthians 6:18-20 - "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body." We all need to make good choice to stay pure and when we are determined and committed we can all stand strong (with God's help). 1 Peter 2:11 - "Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul." Protecting purity in marriage begins long before the wedding. It's your job now, actually, to protect yourself. Hebrews 13:4 - "Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. We need to all be careful to not even get close to sexual impurity. Sexual immorality (including pre-martial sex) is wrong and it needs to be avoided. It is sinful, period. Galatians 5:19-20 - "The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions." Ephesians 5:3 - "But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. It's important to realize that we avoid immorality by pursing what is pure and holy, as declared in 2 Timothy 2:22.... ("righteousness, faith, love, and peace." Now let's say you're already sexually active prior to marriage...uh oh...you're in trouble, right? Wrong! The good news is that there is no sin that God will not forgive completely. You see that promise of His all throughout the Bible in the Old and New Testaments. The blood of Jesus covers it all, thankfully! Amen, amen, amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewieGee Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Teenagers, listen to me. Despite what you may have read above or heard elsewhere, you need to realize that God requires sexual purity from us all. Dear target audience of this site, listen to me above what everyone else has said because I bought this website and my opinions are absolute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Dear target audience of this site, listen to me above what everyone else has said because I bought this website and my opinions are absolute. Why are you always so hostile? My opinions are not always absolute. But what God says in the Bible is absolute and truth. To say that God wants us to be impure would be saying that God wants us to sin. And we all know that's not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesker Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Dear target audience of this site, listen to me above what everyone else has said because I bought this website and my opinions are absolute. Why are you always so hostile? My opinions are not always absolute. But what God says in the Bible is absolute and truth. To say that God wants us to be impure would be saying that God wants us to sin. And we all know that's not true. There is no need for you to get snippy, LewisGee. Even though I disagree with Cary's interpretation of scripture and the logic he uses to justify his arguments, he is entitled to state his opinion. I bear no ill will towards him, and neither should you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Captain Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Now John sounds like cardboard and fairy dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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