Masturbation... WAIT FOR IT.... withOUT lust?

[Christopherjr]

I feel like I've made a thread about this before, but I can't find it?

Anyway, I've read through the girl's thread about this and I just can't imagine it being the same for guys. Do you think there can be masturbation without lust? I don't know about you guys, but physical stimulation alone doesn't do it for me... Not that I'm advocating it, but I'm not technically denouncing it either. If one could masturbate without lust then I'd see no issue, I just can't imagine it being possible.

So, what about you guys? Do you think it can happen, or have you personally experienced it? I know the majority of threads in the Men's 16+ is about this, but come on... it is pretty relevant to Christian teens.

[Crescentheart]

Well in order to that you have to do the dead with null space in your mind or while thinking of something else entirely. It is possible and I know a few people who have admitted to doing it. However this is in the case when they are already erect such as dealing with "morning wood" or something similar. Because to my knowledge most guys function in a way that its hard to "get it up" without lusting.

I'm very clueless in the manor of this because I don't really get the whole lust over people's bodies. I don't particular get aroused by someone being hot etc. So for this reason I find it would probably be easy to masturbate without lust. For other people who work differently I must imagine it could be more difficult.

And honestly I don't see it as a huge issue. If you believe that masturbation is purely a sin because of lust then it must not be a sin without lust. Though if masturbation can lead you to a road of lusting then you must be careful.

[Pointer]

I think the reason this is a discussion is due to a very basic mistake in the words we use.

First let's talk about Biblical sex. That is, sex that God is totally in favor of Christians having. The more-or-less accepted precept to having Biblical sex is marriage.

Now how does lust play into a biblical marriage and biblical sex? I believe, between the couple (of course), that it isn't lust. For the sake of simple terminology let's call it arousal instead. So for a man to have sex in the biblically-approved way, it's not lust, it's arousal.

My point in all of that is, there's a innate difference in the terms that we use from the Bible, and how they are applied in these discussions.

--

So then if there is a difference between lust (sin) and arousal (not-sin), can self-stimulation take place with the same differences? I'm tempted to say it can. I'm not entirely convinced of it, but that's where I'm leaning.

[Wesker]

I assent with Pointer, but in a much wider scope. In my mind, lust is an overflow of sexual energies, not the same as arousal. I do not think all of our natural attractions to another person qualifies as lust. Lust to me is very potent sexual desire, not normal sexual attraction.

[Pointer]

I do not think all of our natural attractions to another person qualifies as lust. Lust to me is very potent sexual desire, not normal sexual attraction.

Oh good point. this too!

[Wesker]

Oh good point. this too! [/color]

The Greek word used in the New Testament and the Septuagint is επιθυμεω. It has a wider connotation of desire/envy, as does the word "lust" in English. For example, a lust for power, or lust for food. Sexual lust is merely one aspect of the greater concept. It is as in beginning of Romans where St. Paul lists all the sexual orgiastic behavior among pagans but then says, "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things." I do not think he literally meant that Christians/Jews engage in orgies on a regular basis. He was saying that we do things of equal iniquity, such as lust after money, or lust after power.

[Faithful Kevin]

I feel like I've made a thread about this before, but I can't find it?

Anyway, I've read through the girl's thread about this and I just can't imagine it being the same for guys. Do you think there can be masturbation without lust? I don't know about you guys, but physical stimulation alone doesn't do it for me... Not that I'm advocating it, but I'm not technically denouncing it either. If one could masturbate without lust then I'd see no issue, I just can't imagine it being possible.

So, what about you guys? Do you think it can happen, or have you personally experienced it? I know the majority of threads in the Men's 16+ is about this, but come on... it is pretty relevant to Christian teens.

Indeed this topic has been touched many times, specially in the Men's forum.

I always say that when someone says you can masturbate without lusting, it's like saying you can think without using your brain.

When you study the Word of God, you find out that Jesus orders you as His follower to deny yourself of your carnal desires and orders to live a holy life.

Now you have to autoevaluate yourself without lying to yourself or deceiving yourself and honestly figure out and weigh your actions to God's holiness.

When I evaluate masturbation, how am I glorifying God? Is this edifying me? Is this an act of the Spirit or of the flesh? Does God think this is holy behavior?

I'm going to tell you right here that masturbation is nothing else than the self gratification of your sexual desires, which translates to sin. You are supposed to wait until your are married so that your sexual desires are met with your spouse and not yourself.

TRUTH: You masturbate because you want to feel the pleasure and the orgasm it brings with it. You masturbate because it feels good. This is a sin and scripture tells you why:

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. Gal 5:16

But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death. James 1:14-15

Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. 1 Peter 2:11

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body. 1 Cor 6:19-20

But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. Eph 5:3

But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. Rom 13:14

Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God. 2 Cor 7:1

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Mat. 5:28

I hope you can consider your path and examine yourself.

[walkingxshadow]

i think it is very possible. a lot of guys stumble on to it accidentally as kids anyways before they know what it is. i will admit that once you get older it is harder(no pun intended) but still possible.

[Matthew2032]

In my opinion even if you could masturbate without lust it would still be a sin. When Paul was writing to the church [not sure which one] he made it clear that the only outlet for sexual desires is in the purity of the marriage bed. Paul also says that it is because men cant control themselves that they should get married. To me this means that you can not control lust during masturbation, if you could there would be no need to masturbate. I agree with Faithful Kevin "that Jesus orders you as His follower to deny yourself of your carnal desires and orders to live a holy life" and by giving into any 'type' of masturbation you would be in disobedience and therefore sin.

[DDOG059]

My response to this is, if you look it up on google, what you'll find will be surprising if you think it's sin, to the world, it seems that masturbation is not only normal for everyone, it's also a good healthy function of your body. With many benefits; You get a good work out, (forgive me if I'm wrong, but this looks very similar) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbsSeVr5NSI it works up a sweat, it gives you gratification, it makes you feel good, and lets face it, who are you hurting? You're in your room alone, maybe with a computer..

That said I agree with Faithful Kevin's scriptures, and idea, so now, why would God tell us that this process that has all of these benefits is wrong? Well, I'm not one to question the almighty, but one thing the world never mentioned was the mental effects of it.. do you think there are any of those when you take the deepest level of sexual interaction supposed to be for you and your future wife, and you have it by yourself in your room? possibly.. also, do you think it's going to make God proud? is He going to be impressed with how long you can "hold out" or how fast you can "do it"? is your wife going to be proud of these things you "accomplished" without her? and to save space, just go back and read the scriptures Faithful Kevin posted.

and how a girl feels about this, and what she can do, and how she does it, Idk, I mean I have some idea, because I've had a gf.. but TBH I don't care.. I'll ask my future wife. ;P

and, I think we've established that even if you can do it without lust it's still sin in God's eyes, but my oppinion is that No, you can't do it without lust; you've got to be thinking about something, and it's something that you don't have right now (hence lusting for it), if you had what you were thinking about you'd be having sex, not masturbating.

[Waterfall32]

It can be done without lust, yes.. I can do it if my sexual urges are strong enough, but it takes longer to ejaculate. Which is not much of a problem for me, but I am tempted to use lust sometimes if i am not careful to control my thoughts, or I want to masturbate but I am not horny enough to do it without sinning.. Yes technically yes it is possible (And it is not condemned in the bible, Onan doesn't count! ) Basically use it as a form of self-control for me so I don't look at porn

[thomasofhilo]

not possible, tried! I'm actually stubborn but in the end.

If your right hand should cause you to sin, cut it off. Better to go into heaven with one hand than be cast into hell with your full body.. umm, to paraphrase it. 

Edited October 16, 2013 by thomasofhilo

[Will_Power]

As some of you probably know from my testimony on this website, I've struggled with masturbation ever since I was in fourth grade. Seeing that I'm in the process of becoming a mentor for a website to free people addicted to this sin, I had to put my insight out there.

 

With the issue of masturbation, we have to look at our lives as a whole. What are we here for? Well in 1 Corinthians 10:31 we find out that we're here to do things all for the glory of God. Knowing that through everything we're supposed to be glorifying God, let me pose this question: If God were to come back in 24 hours (and you KNEW that he was coming in exactly 24 hours) what would you be doing? I can tell you confidently I would not be masturbating.

 

We then have to ask ourselves what are motivation is for masturbating. If we're masturbating to pleasure ourselves, it's a sin (whether we're lusting or not). Romans 8:5 says, "For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the flesh, but those who live according to the spirit set their minds on the things of the spirit."

 

What do most people do when they're masturbating? They're usually alone, with the blinds down, room dark, doing what they do. Why is that? If it was something honorable, uplifting, and Godly, wouldn't you want everyone to rejoice with you? The Bible calls this kind of act "living in darkness." You're doing a sin in the darkness that only you know of and you continue to pleasure yourself even though it's bugging your conscious. The fact that you asked this question is more than likely a conscious issue but you are trying to avoid those thoughts and justify your actions. 1 John 1:5-7, "This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin."

 

I would write more but I have to get ready for work, so if you have any questions always feel free to post here or Private Message me.

 

~Will

 

EDIT: I just realized this thread is more than a year old. But this response can go to anyone who's reading, not just the OP.

 

 

[Chris-M]

I think it's a poor idea to become so disconnected from your body that you can orgasm indifferently. The body and the soul are meant to be integrated.