Violent video games

[Marley]

How do ya'll feel about other semi-violent past times with real life feedback, for example boxing or paintball? 

 

Personally, I have more tolerance for these sports than I do for violent video games EXCEPT in the case where it is exclusively spectator. Basically, I think an important part of paintball is feeling the sting of getting hit and an important part of boxing is getting the snot beat out of you. I worry about the fact that video game violence has no actual negative consequence. 

Edited November 28, 2015 by Marley

[Jesusismyticket]

Yea I get that I give little respect. It is like that due to trust issues unfortunatly

Bryce I have trust issues too. Did you forget that? While I agree we all respond differently to them, you're always defensive and never accept an idea different than yours. That is actually called being closed-minded. and I am speaking because I used to be VERY closed minded. if someone came in here with some other facts about it, I'd be quite interested in this debate. But at the same time I want others to see it is not a foreign idea that this consistent violent video game gaming is with affect.

[Jesusismyticket]

How do ya'll feel about other semi-violent past times with real life feedback, for example boxing or paintball? 

 

Personally, I have more tolerance for these sports than I do for violent video games EXCEPT in the case where it is exclusively spectator. Basically, I think an important part of paintball is feeling the sting of getting hit and an important part of boxing is getting the snot beat out of you. I worry about the fact that video game violence has no actual negative consequence. 

I actually do not like boxing, or 'cage fighting' sports. I find it a promotion of brutal street fighting.

Paintball to me is not that bad. Certain things aren't bad. I think football has began to become a bit more violent which has impacted my liking of it negatively.

[Marley]

UGH. Gaiz. The lecturing. Just no. I'll just let the elephant in the room out of the bag here (infract me at will). We ALL know that Bryce's debate style is one sided and ticks everyone off. BUT! Internet lecturing is also super ineffective and, like, I'd actually like to have this discussion. XP

 

Back on topic... 

 

I'll agree that cage fighting as often televised is a promotion of brutality. But I also worry about lumping all things physical into a "promoting brute violence" category. For example, you mention cage sports but what about Karate or other forms of martial arts?

[Jesusismyticket]

UGH. Gaiz. The lecturing. Just no. I'll just let the elephant in the room out of the bag here (infract me at will). We ALL know that Bryce's debate style is one sided and ticks everyone off. BUT! Internet lecturing is also super ineffective and, like, I'd actually like to have this discussion. XP

 

Back on topic... 

 

I'll agree that cage fighting as often televised is a promotion of brutality. But I also worry about lumping all things physical into a "promoting brute violence" category. For example, you mention cage sports but what about Karate or other forms of martial arts?

I have always looked at karate, tae kwon do, etc. as forms of self defense. When you see stuff of it, it usually promotes the idea of violence as a last resort. It also is a self defense which doesn't always cause someone to die, so it can be a more 'peaceful' aimed violence.

[Crosses]

Please don't lecture me. I've had enough of it from people here and they don't have my utmost respect

Says the person who would try to give a lecture to somebody who would agree with Obama or think gun control needs to be strengthened. Respect is can be earned by a title. But if you really want to earn the respect title,you should treat others as you would want to be treated. You want to teach but not be taught.

I'm sure everybody here has once thought or said to somebody to stop lecturing them. Some lectures are needed while other aren't.

WHO CARES if people don't have your utmost respect?! It's the Internet....nobody treats people equally. But that doesn't give you the right ti sink down to their level and act the same way. And if these people don't have your utmost respect,maybe you should try talking to them. Or even better,just ignore them or block them. Like actually hit the block/ignore button if you can't stand them that much.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Crosses

[Delores Stariana]

I understand that these games can be addicting. But even if you don't notice it, your mindset is changing. You become more aggressive and very defensive about your game, and slowly, sometimes slowly enough that no one notices until it's really far gone, you become violent. My mom's psychologist friends say this is true, and I've experienced it. I used to play a somewhat violent game. I became addicted and starting becoming violent. I had to force myself to stop because what I was becoming wasn't good for anyone. Over 3 months my mindset changed to one of more violence. It varies on the person, but you can't play violent games and not have your mindset affected.

[Chris-M]

 

Violence in media can lead to more aggression in everyday life because modeling is part of how we learn whether we like it or not. We have less executive control over who we are and what we do than we might like to believe, and we ought to take seriously the importance of a healthy social environment.

 

That said, you have to make a lot of assumptions to get from Bandura's social cognitive theory all the way to "GTA V causes 20 deaths a year." To make that specific of a claim, we'd need more specific research. As far as I'm aware, little evidence for that idea exists. In fact, millions of people partake of violent media every day, but only a minority of us ever commit violent crime. Football hooliganism has almost certainly killed more people than video games.

 

As is so often the case, people wondering about this question ought to rely less on their intuitions and more on the empirical literature. Where there isn't a definite scientific answer, we should approach knowledge with caution.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Chris-M

[Noel 1525]

Bryce is this going to be another one of your phases? 

 

But anyways, a philosophical question for all of you, are violent video games appealing to the public because society really has violent desires we've suppressed? 

[Jesusismyticket]

Bryce is this going to be another one of your phases? 

 

But anyways, a philosophical question for all of you, are violent video games appealing to the public because society really has violent desires we've suppressed? 

that is an interesting question James, I'll take some elaboration on it.

 

I believe there is some people who have suppressed anger and desires for violence which are 'relieved' in another source possibly. When I feel like being violent I write a song, when they feel like being violent perhaps they play a game. I cannot speak 100%. I know some people play them simply for entertainment, violent desires or not. I personally struggle to understand how someone cannot wince even once playing one of those game where someone's head is brutally chopped off. I've watched a lot of horror movies and I still feel the fear, the empathy towards the victims, etc. so I also could believe perhaps it is the 'person'.

[Chris-M]

But anyways, a philosophical question for all of you, are violent video games appealing to the public because society really has violent desires we've suppressed? 

 

 

If this were the case, then we would expect the more successful violent video games to be the ones that best express cathartic violence.

 

In fact, however, most violent videogames are like The Godfather--violence is an essential part of the mix, but it serves a greater artistic purpose. Halo and Call of Duty revolve around competitive skill mechanics, while GTA V sells an immersive and wide-ranging world full of absurd dark-comedic stunts and heist-movie tropes.

 

In fact, really dark games that really do seem to have no reason to exist other than violent catharsis--such as Hatred or Naughty Bear--typically do much worse than more nuanced titles.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Chris-M

[Noel 1525]

If this were the case, then we would expect the more successful violent video games to be the ones that best express cathartic violence.

 

In fact, however, most violent videogames are like The Godfather--violence is an essential part of the mix, but it serves a greater artistic purpose. Halo and Call of Duty revolve around competitive skill mechanics, while GTA V sells an immersive and wide-ranging world full of absurd dark-comedic stunts and heist-movie tropes.

 

In fact, really dark games that really do seem to have no reason to exist other than violent catharsis--such as Hatred or Naughty Bear--typically do much worse than more nuanced titles.

Interesting, I think you have a good point. I wasn't saying that they definitely did, I just thought it was an interesting question. 

[slycooper]

http://healthland.time.com/2011/12/02/how-playing-violent-video-games-may-change-the-brain/

 

http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20100525/violent-video-games-have-impact-on-the-brain

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/11/111130095251.htm

 

http://psychcentral.com/news/2012/12/11/negative-effects-of-violent-video-games-may-build-over-time/48918.html

 

Just a general sort of thing, be a wee bit careful about using articles about studies. They dont really try to critically appraise them in a news section so while that is what the researches have said it does not mean that the research if of good quality. The studies for example are of a very small population and without reading them we can't ascertain important factors such as bias (blinding, allocation bias), methodology and rigor, let alone the strength of causation and effect. The Bushman one for example is not thought to have been properly peer reviewed on resubmission and so it is of rather dubious quality until fully appraised. Specifically to this topic there is also a common problem with how aggression is defined (wanting to commit a mass shooting all the way through to being a bit irked when you lose). 

Not to say there isn't anything there, I really don't know but there isn't a scientific consensus on the subject and so unless people want to get out a CASP tool and start arguing for or against the quality of the research, the scientific part of this thread is really just conjecture.

[Buoyancy]

All's I gotta say is Phillipians 4:8."Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.".


Lessee...  in GTA we got law breaking, illicit sex, drugs, and murdering. Stealing cars and running over innocent people as well. There's also copious amounts of profanity.

Wow, that sounds pure, noble, right, lovely, true, praiseworthy, excellent AND admirable! 


/obvious sarcasm


I'm far from perfect, but I don't want junk like that floppin' around in my brain. You do you, Bryce, but don't be surprised if this hurts your witness. Or makes you stumble. Stuff in your mind eventually makes it out of your mouth. :\


 

[Chris-M]

 there isn't a scientific consensus on the subject and so unless people want to get out a CASP tool and start arguing for or against the quality of the research, the scientific part of this thread is really just conjecture.

 

 

 

While I agree, I think it's worth adding, "and so educated conjecture is the best we can reasonably do; we should be cautious about forming definite beliefs."

 

All's I gotta say is Phillipians 4:8."Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.".

Lessee...  in GTA we got law breaking, illicit sex, drugs, and murdering. Stealing cars and running over innocent people as well. There's also copious amounts of profanity.

Wow, that sounds pure, noble, right, lovely, true, praiseworthy, excellent AND admirable!  

 

 

People rarely apply this rubric to, say, the writings of Dostoevsky or the Old Testament, even though both shine a light on moral filth. This is because moral filth in that context plays a role in a larger admirable project, much as the Joker's terrorism gives light to Batman's heroic features. 

 

I could make an argument about how GTA uses its "filth" to construct satire about popular culture, and I think I would be right to an extent. Really, though, GTA is in itself a bad example. The GTA argument highlights the most offensive popular game on the market and uses it to impugn an entire class of games, most of which are not nearly as dirty. 

Edited November 29, 2015 by Chris-M

[Zabby]

While I agree, I think it's worth adding, "and so educated conjecture is the best we can reasonably do; we should be cautious about forming definite beliefs."

 

 

People rarely apply this rubric to, say, the writings of Dostoevsky or the Old Testament, even though both shine a light on moral filth. This is because moral filth in that context plays a role in a larger admirable project, much as the Joker's terrorism gives light to Batman's heroic features. 

 

I could make an argument about how GTA uses its "filth" to construct satire about popular culture, and I think I would be right to an extent. Really, though, GTA is in itself a bad example. The GTA argument highlights the most offensive popular game on the market and uses it to impugn an entire class of games, most of which are not nearly as dirty. 

You're also ignoring the modding culture of GTA which is almost as extensive as the modding culture of Skyrim. 

[JesusDied4Me]

that is an interesting question James, I'll take some elaboration on it.

 

I believe there is some people who have suppressed anger and desires for violence which are 'relieved' in another source possibly. When I feel like being violent I write a song, when they feel like being violent perhaps they play a game. I cannot speak 100%. I know some people play them simply for entertainment, violent desires or not. I personally struggle to understand how someone cannot wince even once playing one of those game where someone's head is brutally chopped off. I've watched a lot of horror movies and I still feel the fear, the empathy towards the victims, etc. so I also could believe perhaps it is the 'person'.

Interesting... I was once a passionate FPS gamer. I have since realized that video games which support violence should not be played. However, horror movies, in my opinion, are much worse than playing violent games. I am now attempting to stop playing first person shooters as I know it is wrong. 

Philippians 4:8New Living Translation (NLT)

8 And now, dear brothers and sisters, one final thing. Fix your thoughts on what is true, and honorable, and right, and pure, and lovely, and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise.

 

Matthew 6:22-23English Standard Version (ESV)

22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light, 23 but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!

 

I know, from first hand experience that video games can be addictive. Take a break and spend that time with the Lord!

Edited November 29, 2015 by JesusDied4Me

[Carolus_Rex]

Numbness to violence ≠ Being prone to violence (as long as that numbness didn't come from being raised by the IS or Patrick Bateman etc.)

 

I don't believe playing violent video games will make you numb to violence in the real world, however, it will make you numb to virtual violence. And virtual violence is luckily, as far as I'm concerned, harmless.

 

It's a matter of separating reality from fantasy. Even if you're only relatively sane that should be easy enough to do...

 

I think this quote says it quite well:

"Now Sid, don't you blame the movies... Movies don't create psychos. Movies make psychos more creative!" - That Billy character from Scream (1996)

Edited November 29, 2015 by Carolus_Rex

[JKAY]

Why? In that case, do you think there is anything wrong with 50 Shades of Grey? if it "doesn't affect you.Everything affects you in important ways whether you know it or not. Every little thing. Period. No exceptions.I think you're way overestimating the maturity difference between a 10-year-old and a 15-year-old.

(I'm on a kindle formatting anything is a lesson in patience, sorry about the confusing structure)

50 shades of gray is an insult to writing.

And really I'm quoting this because that last reply slays.

Also I stay out of debates cause my arguments tend to be idealistic tldr stuff.

But...

Gta sucks. I abhor it and saints row. Anything that glorifies vice and personal gain through destruction is morally disgusting and lazy.

COD, battlefield, any of those shooter games have a cesspool of players who fling abuse back and forth in matches. It's obnoxious and has all of zero constructive applications irl.

Video games should be positive outlets, something to pass the time in a way that doesn't get you stressed out. They're potentially really beautiful ways to tell stories.

[GODS_NOT_DEAD]

My parents only let me play rated T games which is probably for the best because what goes in; comes out.

 

. Well still. You can always find back doors around the bad stuff quite easily

 I'd have to disagree with you here Bryce. not all games have "turn off bad stuff" button

 

the only game I can think of that has one of those is happy wheels and that's not the best game to play... even with the edits

Edited November 30, 2015 by GODS_NOT_DEAD

[paraskeve]

Violence is basically a part of our culture, almost all of us are desensitized by it, and that's why movies/shows basically exist. Without the violence, it isn't "interesting" and people don't watch it. 

As for video games, I don't play them as I simply have no time, and no technology to do so. I don't have a phone (thank goodness), a laptop, (last time I did I was addicted to staying up until 5 AM, it broke, and I am so, so, so thankful that it did), or this new-fangled-obviously-alien-technology-smart-phone, so nope. XDF We have kindles, but we don't use them all that often, and they're not what you'd call video games.

I get up early to unwind/homework, I do homework, I help keep the house in balance so it doesn't look like Nicholas stayed there. (PoE ref!) And with adding me listening to music, homework, reading, cleaning, sometimes TV, me needing 8 hours of sleep or I'm the Joker, medical appointments, church, cooking, planning about my future, plus forums, there is no time for me to try to play video-games, (with the exception of forum-games, and they don't count), I'm too busy thinking about cleaning, random fandom, etc. 

[Chris-M]

 I'm too busy thinking about cleaning, random fandom, etc. 

 

 

While I respect your personal choices, I fail to see how this is more productive than playing a videogame, especially if the game puts you in a social situation or builds skills with any kind of transfer.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Chris-M

[paraskeve]

While I respect your personal choices, I fail to see how this is more productive than playing a videogame, especially if the game puts you in a social situation or builds skills with any kind of transfer.

 

 

Are you sarcastic? If not, read below.

 

Video games do not = life, nor do they = socialization. I have two forums/FB account/church for that. And the last time I played a MMPORG was rather... jolting, and I'd prefer to not go through that again. Plus, there's only two Apple Macs in the whole house, and not a lot of good games are eligible for Macs, sadly.

[Chris-M]

nor do they = socialization. I have two forums/FB account/church for that.

That's like saying football isn't a social activity because you'd rather meet people in a crafts club. Sure, you can socialize like you socialize, but that doesn't stop other people from chilling via pig skin.

I play MOBAs and MMO's with my parents, my uncle, and my cousins. Since they live in Colorado, Oregon, and in Oklahoma respectively, it would be hard to find an activity that could bring us together like online gaming.

Video games do not = life,

Push ups do not = practical applications of upper body strength. The gains still transfer.

Problem solving, effective communication, and strategic planning--these are general skills that competitive multiplayer games often practice :3

Edited December 1, 2015 by Chris-M

[paraskeve]

That's like saying football isn't a social activity because you'd rather meet people in a crafts club. Sure, you can socialize like you socialize, but that doesn't stop other people from chilling via pig skin.

I play MOBAs and MMO's with my parents, my uncle, and my cousins. Since they live in Colorado, Oregon, and in Oklahoma respectively, it would be hard to find an activity that could bring us together like online gaming.

Push ups do not = practical applications of upper body strength. The gains still transfer.

Problem solving, effective communication, and strategic planning--these are general skills that competitive multiplayer games often practice :3

 

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